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Du commissaire gouvernement au rapporteur public dissertation write for me kapstone paper mill charleston south carolina looking for someone to make research paper on history please good morning everybody if you take your seat thank you so much for being here on Friday I want to begin by a few introductions representing our board of trustees is Pearl Cheng pearl thank you so much for being here and of our vice chancellor group we've got Joe Moreau from technology Doreen Novotny who needs no introduction and Kevin McElroy is with us in spirit and he's at home with the flu and we thought you keep your germs at home we're we're much happier with that and of course President Tweety Wynn of Foothill thank you so much and I know President Brian Murphy is on his way I can attest to the traffic coming from San Francisco I also want to introduce Nani Jack ins Park who will be one of our facilitators today and Nani where are you because I've got there okay Pat's Pat's pointing to Nani in the back somewhere okay you'll get to see Nani I also want to do some acknowledgments there are so many people who have helped put today together and you know isn't that just the way this work work first of all Doreen thank you so much I'm going to ask you all the stand so that you can be acknowledged Doreen if you would stand I so appreciate your recommendation for Tim Pat Hyland please stand you've done so much work behind the scenes Marty kaan where are you doing the streaming and the other folks I want to acknowledge your Veronica Neil where's Veronica stay Fanny because I want I want this group up Elaine quo Mayra cruz marisa Spatafore Kalia Harris Mary KN Glen Becky Barton Dale pollen or sell lorry rank Tina woo and Kay Thornton and Brian Murphy who also ran one of the book circles thank you so much for that right and anybody else who was part of the book circles or any other parts of history would you just please stand so we can thank you too in case I didn't have your name thank you so much for doing this that is just great so I have the privilege of introducing Tim Wise and what I decided to do you had a chance to look at his website and to read his book and to talk about it so instead of introducing Tim to you I want to introduce you to Tim so Tim some of us have worked for decades on behalf of equity and some are just starting the journey some have said that you stated the obvious in your book and some have said thank goodness he wrote this book because it was not obvious some have expressed equity fatigue and some have said boy am i renewed with some energy around this work we're a community that is as diverse as the students we represent but we are not nearly as representative of them in our population as we want to be we are mindful of the to Silicon Valley's that we serve one of immense wealth and one that is in the shadows and is marginalized and is underserved and 59% of Latino households are living in poverty and we need to know how do we engage the wealth of this valley to serve those who are in poverty we're a community that is passionate that is courageous that is persistent and we are impatient for progress your voice is one of many that will inform our actions welcome to Foothill DeAnza thank you very much so first of all everybody okay this morning you good in a good mood you're in a good place well that helps because we're going to talk about some things that could leave you in a decidedly not-so-great place if you're not starting off and the right framework and I want to make sure everyone's of course you know if you're doing well and you're not when I'm done then it's obviously my fault so maybe I shouldn't have asked the question and maybe shouldn't have set the standard so hide we've been better if you'd said I'm sort of doing crummy because then whatever I do you know it won't really be on me it'll be on whatever you walked in the door with but I'll take it whatever happens happens I appreciate the introduction I have a lot of gratitude for the folks here at the administrative team who were here I have to tell you the last couple of weeks I've been back and forth I live in Tennessee but I've been back and forth to your general vicinity quite a bit in the last couple of weeks I was at Mission I was at San Jose City College and now I'm here and at each of those institutions really interestingly and I think it's worth noting and I think it's a valuable sort of reflection on these institutions and what it means to be a leader at a community college that in those three places that I've just been in the last couple of weeks all of which take pride in serving the community in ways that occasionally other colleges and universities don't necessarily focus upon that the presidents have been there that Chancellor's have been there that administrative leadership teams have been in the room and I want to tell you how valuable that is because I've been at this for more than a minute and in the 23 or 24 years that I have been speaking to different institutions around issues of equity and racism and injustice before last week or whenever it was I came to mission that was the first of the three before that event I told them that I could probably count on two hands and maybe a foot how many times out of 1,500 presentations I had had an actual president of an institution in the room and I could count on far fewer than that a couple of fingers the times that I'd had a chancellor in the room or really any extensive level of true senior leadership so the fact that that's happening here in this area in community colleges tells me something about the intentionality of the people at the top and that matters so don't take it for granted and I hope you know that and there's part of me that doesn't even want to say that because like you're supposed to be in the room right let me say that too like you're supposed to be here so it's sort of like applauding someone for being a good parent like you're supposed to be a good parent you know I I didn't hit my kid today great you know I mean you're sort of supposed to show up but I'm just telling you that having done this for nearly a quarter century and hardly ever seen such folks show up it is a pleasant shift in the way that the work is getting done not always having to sort of pull teeth and hold folks hands because folks are right there in the room willing to grapple and and struggle with some really important stuff so again I think that's important and I want to make sure you don't take it for granted I certainly do not now here's the thing those who have followed my work and I know some or most of you I don't know some of you have read at least one of my books and you know maybe you've made the really horrible life-altering mistake of following me on social media not a good move I want to tell you that I'm not known for my optimism right I mean I'm not cynical but I'm not known for my optimism about the problems facing the country when it comes to race having said that because I have two teenage girls and you can offer up a prayer light a candle for me later over that I am trying to tease out some optimism right from a general storm cloud of not-so-good stuff that I see happening in the country and it's not easy to do I'm not even sure I've convinced myself of what I'm about to tell you so I'm just warning you ahead of time if you don't buy it don't worry I'm not sure I buy it but I'm trying and I think it's good to try to be optimistic to try to have some hope to try to find something positive even in a moment that might seem a little bit nerve-wracking and daunting for us those who do this work here's the silver lining again don't know if I buy it not sure you will but here it comes low expectations that's what I'm setting here low low expectations for the last eight years it seems as though my job and the job of others of us who talk about racial equity and issues of racism and discrimination and all of this stuff have had to spend the better part of that eight years right during the presidency of Barack Obama simply trying to convince people that this was an issue to have anymore a discussion about right for eight years we've had to actually convince particularly white Americans that we actually needed to have this talk because so many white folks were convinced that the conversation was passe right that we no longer had to have it that it was such a 2007 conversation because you know man of color wins the presidency how could racism still be a problem which is of course not the kind of question we asked when Margaret Thatcher became the head of state and Great Britain we didn't say is sexism gone now I guess there's no more sexism in the UK or when benazir bhutto became the head of state in Pakistan twice not once twice in Pakistan a woman head of state nobody said well I guess the patriarchy has been smashed in Pakistan no one said that about India or Israel or Germany or Ireland or the Philippines all of which have had female heads of state we have still not I don't think any woman in the room believes that sexism has been eradicated in those places and I'm hoping the men know better as well right but the point is we wouldn't say that about those places when it comes to sexism and the opportunities that women do or don't have but in our own country for eight years that was a constant right and that was exhausting right to try to prove that the elevation of one individual to a pinnacle of power didn't mean anything about another hundred million people of color and all in the country at least not necessarily so so if there is any good news about the moment that we're facing right now this is it I no longer got to prove much right because all of that simplistic colorblind denial you now get hit in the faced with the reality right that we're living in a very different moment we have seen an uptick in overt racial hostility we've seen all these videos that have gone viral of folks melting like the guy in the Starbucks you saw this one right this guy that got bad service at a Starbucks imagine that that bad service slow latte right and decided to go off on the black woman that was serving in his latte right calling her racial slurs telling her for some reason that he supported Trump's so they're like I don't even know what the relevance of that is but he just wanted to make sure that she knew it right this was like days after the election right and he felt he was being oppressed as a white man because he got the latte slow listen here's if you learn nothing else today write this down if you think slow latte service at the Starbucks is oppression you clearly have never faced oppression that I can assure you and yet this guy just went ballistic there was another woman in the Michaels you know and they offered her she had like a big order and it wouldn't fit in the plastic bags and they said you want one of these like reusable bags it's like a box you know and you can use it the next time you come and then she goes ballistic calls the woman a racial slur says I voted for Trump what do you think about that once again like what is the fragility on display right when you my god you asked me for a $1 recyclable bag your viewer our anti white bigoted that's a reverse discriminate it mean it's like the most nonsensical stuff but that's what we're seeing in this particular kind of moment we have beyond that we have talk of mass deportation wall building the banning of certain refugees we have a Department of Justice which is saying that they intend to re escalate the war on drugs despite a history of that war on drugs being fought in a horribly racially discriminatory fashion we have them advocating stop and frisk and racial profiling for the entire nation as if that were a legitimate Department of Justice and local law enforcement policy so as all of this stuff happens it's a lot easier I think I hope to convince people that perhaps these conversations aren't passe after all perhaps we still need to start working at it but here's the danger right so I gave you the silver lining and then here comes the other armed cloud so won't walk here's the danger right all that stuff I just mentioned which is so obvious and so blatant in some ways which you can see playing out on social media you can see it playing out on mainstream media you can see it playing out and talk radio you can see it playing out in our own conversations with colleagues and family and sort of just the acrimony of the moment in general in all possible directions right that the danger is that as we focus on those obvious manifestations of hostility and prejudice right we miss some of the systemic and the institutional forms of inequality and injustice the ones that we're implicated in because it's easier to point at the guy at the Starbucks and it's funny to do and that's why I did it right easy to point at the guy at the Michaels it's easy to point at the resurgence of overt white nationalist groups right who are growing in number and in influence on social media and have attached themselves to the president not necessarily the president's fault but you do have to wonder why they did that and why they're so effusive in their praise for him right and as they grow and as those obvious manifestations of hostility increase we can somehow content ourselves right with the idea that well you know that's those people over there it's not us you know they're the bad people and we're on the side of the angels and we're trying to do everything right but the reality is that racial inequality and injustice most certainly predated this administration it predated the last administration and the administration before that racial inequity isn't the fault of Donald Trump it wasn't the fault of Barack Obama it wasn't the fault of George W Bush it wasn't the fault of Bill Clinton or any other president going back many generations it's been an intergenerational problem in our country that none of us have solved Democrat Republican or anything in between or to the sides of those so we really don't have the right to be smug right even before this administration came in the typical white family in America had 15 times the net worth of the typical black family and 13 times that of the typical Latino family because of intergenerational head starts and opportunities that were afforded to some and not others that's not on Donald Trump that's on Barack Obama that's not on Republicans or Democrats liberals conservatives or moderates it's on all of us because we live in that society and none of us have really been able to fix it yet the fact that African Americans with a college degree are almost twice as likely as White's with a degree to be unemployed which is true by the way right that was in existence before Donald Trump the fact that Latinos with a degree are 50% more likely than whites with a degree to be unemployed that was true before Donald Trump still true now the fact that Asian American and Pacific Islanders with a degree 23% more likely than whites with a degree to be unemployed that was true before Trump our indigenous Native American brothers and sisters with a degree 2/3 more likely than whites with a degree to be unemployed that was all true before Trump so we've all been living with that and to sort of point at others and say well you're to blame why didn't you fix that that's on us too right we live in this society we haven't demanded enough of our politicians and we haven't necessarily done enough in our own institutions to fix some of those things unequal educational outcomes unequal treatment in the justice system all of these things that are very real and can certainly be made worse or better by any given political administration nonetheless predate them and so we have to stop I think first and foremost with the idea that over here on this side are the people we don't like whether for political reasons ideological reasons racial reasons ethnic reasons cultural reasons religious reasons and then over here are the people we do like and somehow these are the good guys and these are the bad guys because reality is sometimes we're the bad guys too when we don't see the way that our own actions or inactions inadvertently can contribute to the problem we look at history and I think we tend to teach history as the cumulative effect of things people do but remember history is also the cumulative effect of things people don't do roads not taken actions not initiated right the things that we don't do can be every bit as important as the stuff we do and so let's think about that as it relates to equity both in general and more specifically within the educational environment where you work let's talk about what the barriers to that are you see sometimes I think we come into these events and we're looking for a very specific set of 1 through 10 like here are the sort of operational zand we use this dead language of American business speed right give us they give us the deliverables give us the operational you know this is not real language these are not real words right we're looking for the 1 through 10 we want the PowerPoint presentation just tell me what to do and I'll plug it in right but it's never that easy and the reason it's never that easy is that we're starting a lot of times with faulty premises as we move forward trying to come up with concrete one for 10 if our premises are faulty right beneath which we're creating that 1 through 10 or that 1 through 5 or that 20-point plan or whatever it is if our premises are faulty those faulty premises will preclude adequate solutions to complex problems let me tell you what I think those premises are that we need to be challenging every day within our spaces within our institutions within our own lives and these again will be to some just like those who felt that what I wrote about in the book was very obvious and basic and common sense it will be that again to some for others it may not be right all that tells me is that some folks have been on this a little bit longer than others and what it also tells me is that in general folks of color who usually are the ones who know so much of what it is I'm saying have known it because they've lived it right part of it and this is the first faulty premise is the fact that those of us in the dominant group right are usually convinced that the problem isn't really as big as people of color make it that's our first flawed premise and it's not just that white folks do that visiter people of color I think men do that with regard to sexism I think those of us who were straight or cisgender do that with regard to heterosexism and transphobia those with money certainly do that with regard to those who struggle right if you're working-class white person historically you know how rich folks don't understand whatever it is you've experienced all right people who are able-bodied and don't face the barriers of disability and discrimination on that basis generally don't see what people who do face those obstacles who were disabled faced this is all again common sense but if it were as common as I'm claiming it to be now we wouldn't have to have these conversations because we would just be listening to people when they tell us they face this stuff right and then we'd be acting on the basis of their recommendations not looking for the white guy to give you the one for ten see that's ironic so there are plenty of folks of color that say this stuff on the daily that we ignore and yet we do we've always ignored it and I'm not trying to be mean like you know I know people get this really twisted and sometimes people think oh my god he doesn't like white people he's so he's anti white look I love white I love I'm white I have a healthy ego development I do really and and my wife is why I love her I just talked to her right before the event I called her I called her and I told her how much I loved her right our daughters they're white which is what happens and white people make babies that's how they come out love them my mom nice white lady love her absolutely love her my dad we don't get along but it's not because he's white it's about some other stuff and we don't have time and and you're not therapists so I mean some of you might be but you're not on the clock so so you understand like it's not about white people it's about the problem that we live in a society that really allows those of us who are white to be oblivious to people of colors reality so much so that you can go back fifty some odd years let's put aside politics for a second and we can put aside ideology in fact we can even put aside what you do or don't think about how persistent this problem is right now all right once we're done we're going to do a survey and you're going to get a chance to let us all know how much of a problem you think or don't think it is at this institution or throughout the system but putting that aside for a second let's just think about what it means that 50-plus years ago 1963 so 54 years now right over a half century when the Gallup Organization which at that time was the premier and still is one of the premier polling institutions in the country went out and asked white Americans a large cross sampling of white Americans do you believe that black folks are treated equally in your community in regard to housing education and employment they didn't ask about groups of color because this was prior to the immigration restrictions being lifted in 65 so that dynamic was overwhelmingly white Blackmun at the time do you think blacks are treated equally this is 1963 yo this is not a hard question right and in retrospect everyone in here knows the answer to that question and you know it no matter what your politics are no matter whether you're on the right the left or somewhere in between you all know I hope I suspect that the answer is well of course they weren't being treated equally it was before the Civil Rights Act for God's sake it was the height of the civil rights movement right it was before the Voting Rights Act it was before the Fair Housing Act was passed in 1968 we were still a formal system of white supremacy in those days so whatever you think we may have accomplished since and of course we've accomplished quite a bit in some regards you gotta at least admit back then stuff was not so pretty and yet in 1963 when white folks were asked that question two out of three perfectly otherwise rationale I'm assuming white Americans said oh sure they're treated just fine two out of three in an election that'd be a landslide right two out of three people were like yeah what's the problem here in the middle of the civil rights struggle right the year before that 1962 Gallup asked the same large kind of group of white Americans not the same people but another large group of white people do you think black children have the same chance to get a good education as white children uh come on it's only eight years after the Supreme Court struck down school segregation you know they hadn't done anything to actually fix inequality in that eight years the history tells us that the idea that there was equal educational opportunity in 62 is nonsense it's delusional and in retrospect we all know it but when they asked the question in 1962 not with fifty five years in the rearview mirror to see how ridiculous the answer is but at the time 85 out of 100 white folks said sure everything's fun black children have exactly the same chance to get a good education now what does it tell us that otherwise decent people because I think most folks are decent folks I think most people don't want to hurt people I mean most people don't wake up wanting to do harm to people I think most people are relatively rational including those folks in those polls and yet what does it mean that they could look around and not see what we all see retrospectively and what folks of color new then see because black and brown folks weren't confused at that time they weren't under the illusion that there was equal opportunity they asked them the question and the answers were pretty overwhelmingly in the other direction yes so if people of color could see it in white folks couldn't but white folks are just as decent just as rational just as capable of seeing it at least internally what does it mean that they didn't see what it means is we live in a culture that doesn't require us to know any better so if you're white in 1962 or 63 you could be totally ignorant to the way other people are living in the things that they're experiencing and you still get to be called competent you still get to get a job you still get to be a teacher or a lawyer or a doctor or a nurse or a therapist or whatever it you get to graduate from high school not knowing nothing about nothing that doesn't involve you you get to get a college degree not knowing nothing about nothing that doesn't have to do with you so what I'm trying to suggest to you is if we live in a society that's always allowed the dominant group to remain oblivious that's a real problem because when you're oblivious to the way the world works you can't fix the problems in that world cuz you don't see them right and this isn't about white folks being bad or ignorant or mean or anything it's about the fact that we've just always been able to remain oblivious that's a privilege isn't it it's a privilege to not know what other people have to know but it's a dangerous one because then makes it really hard for us to build connections with other people when we're seeing totally different worlds right sort of like if you ever have seen the movie The Matrix right remember the first matrix film when Morpheus offers neo the two pills the red pill and the blue pill he says basically look you can take the blue pill and you can wake up the story ends you can remain oblivious that's where everybody else is nobody wants to know the truth of what's going on right and if you want to be like that you can do that or I can give you the red pill you can take that I'll take you down the rabbit hole show you how deep it goes right and you'll have enlightenment you'll see what's really going on and neo takes the red pill and now he starts to see the stuff that was always happening but he hadn't seen that's sort of a perfect metaphor for identity in our country when you're a member of a dominant group and every one of us in here is a member of at least one this isn't just about white folks and it's not just about white men and it's not just about straight white men and it's not just about straight white Christian men it's also about any of us who were able-bodied right anyone who's straight anyone who suspended anyone who's middle class and above anyone who's got a college education right there are lots of different identities where you're the norm and every one of us has got at least one that I've never been in a room with anyone that didn't have at least one area where they were the quote/unquote norm and that's where it's dangerous it's that point where you're the norm that you can take things for granted so the first premise that's faulty is this idea that maybe the problem isn't that big a problem trust me when I tell you those who are the target of inequality and mistreatment and injustice know better than the rest of us what they're experiencing and so if we're going to fix the problem we have to reject the faulty premise and start with a new one what's the new premise the targets of oppression and marginality know their lives better than we do period we start with that premise if we start with that premise it doesn't mean that every single member of that targeted group will always get it right right people make mistakes people can can make a mistake in terms of what they discern in a given situation but the problem is we live in a society where the dominant group looks at the non-dominant or the marginalized group and says I think y'all are crazy I think y'all was seeing things there must be something wrong with you right but if white folks got it wrong in 62 and 63 what are the odds that suddenly we're the ones who figured it out right and if I mean really like like was there a Neville s evolutionary leap in people of European descent that they didn't tell me about that like our brains in the last 50 years or like now we see stuff you know and black and brown folks suddenly lost their power of discernment that seems highly unlikely to me so that's the first premise we need to challenge here's the second one the premise that we can solve these problems with colorblind formalism what do I mean by colorblind formalism I mean the idea that we just want to treat everyone the same all your teachers say this I'll hear administrators say this all your employers say this well I treat everyone the same first of all I don't believe you because the research tells me that's not true the research tells me that we don't treat everyone the same that we all have a degree of subconscious perhaps but nonetheless real bias and it does fact the way we treat people whether we realize it or not if it's subconscious you might not realize it doesn't mean it's not happening but that isn't even the bigger point even if it were true it wouldn't be a salutary thing if you tell me that you treat everyone the same even if you were telling me the God's honest truth I would tell you that you weren't doing your job very well because treating everyone the same isn't treating them justly when not everyone faces the same stuff if certain people are facing obstacles and barriers and mistreatment on the basis of identity that I don't happen to share and therefore I'm not facing mistreatment on that basis if you treat me and that person the same how are you treating us fairly and equitably you're not you're treating us equally but not equitably there's a big difference right if certain folks are trying to run on a track for instance and some people have got hurdles that they've got to jump over that are higher than the other hurdles and other people got to jump over and you just put us all on the same clock and at the end of it you go with this person cross the finish line first they're clearly the faster runner and you ignore the fact that the folks who had higher hurdles to jump over by necessity are probably going to be a few steps behind then how'd you treat people equally or justly you didn't you didn't treat them fairly so we don't want colorblind formalism where we treat everyone the same we have to speak to the needs that people have educators in particular need to think about this there's been research on this going back many years right where they ask students of color versus white students how important it was to regularly get positive feedback from their teachers from their educators about their ability just positive feedback you know teachers who demonstrated it they believed in them right and gave them a chance to do their work and improve their work when it wasn't so good the first time and really spoke to them in a way that conveyed real confidence in their ability to do high-quality work when they asked white students white students overwhelmingly sort of shrugged it off they were like well you know I mean I like positive feedback but it's not really critical in terms of getting me to do the best work I can do I'm either going to do it or I'm not when they ask students have color the question the answer was very different overwhelmingly the students of color said that it was critical for them to put their best foot forward because they needed to know that folks believed in them now why might that be is that because those folks of color just are weaker they have weaker constitutions no because if you're being told by a lot of other forces in the society that we don't believe in you if you're getting pretty regular messages of incapacity it might be really helpful to have somebody in a position of authority demonstrate that they do believe in you right that can help compensate for the other mess that's going on outside the classroom outside the school but if I have a mentality that says well I'm just going to treat everyone exactly the same and I don't give positive feedback by God the students either do the work or they don't what's wrong with them right I'm not looking at their actual experience then I'm not really looking at what some are facing and therefore adjusting it's not wrong to necessarily treat folks the same but you got to treat them the same based on the needs of the most marginal right in other words I'm not saying let's start giving positive feedback to students of color and ignoring white students like I'm not saying like go into the classroom and hey black person love your work you know and gosh you're a brilliant Latina scholar and and oh my god go away I don't wanna talk to you I'm not saying that right I'm saying you can treat people the same but you got to understand the needs of those who are most marginalized so if we start giving positive feedback it's all of our students if we make it clear and convey the capacity that students have it might be redundant for the white students they might not need it according to their own survey responses but it isn't going to kill them and there will be some white students for whom it'll be really helpful particularly working-class first-generation college students right good reason to believe that they could benefit from that but we know that it's important and necessary for those students of color who are the most marginalized so if we're going to have a norm of treating folks the same let's at least be color conscious about the needs of the most marginal and apply the standards that they require in order to succeed right rather than the ones that the dominant group is always needed which are sometimes more passive that's what it means to be color conscious as opposed to color blond about giving that positive feedback and realizing that some students on a campus face what we might call the burden of representation while others face the privilege of belonging right the sense that I belong here right and for the most part the folks who have a privilege of the law feeling though as though they belong are the ones who've always been present in those kinds of spaces even if they're not the majority on a given campus now right even if an institution has become or is seeking a designation for instance as an HSI as a hispanic-serving institution has a lot of students of color increasingly nonetheless that's a relatively recent phenomenon for most of those institutions right historically that isn't always who was in those spaces and so even though students of color who come in let's say to an HSI or even an HBCU sometimes know that if they're the first one in their family to be in that spot or maybe the second one in their family to be in that spot they've still got to hold it down not only as an individual but as a representative of a group knowing that if they drop the ball they didn't just drop it for them they dropped it for everybody looks like them coming after them right whereas for white students there's that sense that if I fail I get to fail on my own that's a big privilege to is to know that if I fail I get to own it I don't I don't have to worry about it being seen as a group flaw and if I succeed I get to own that too right and I talked about this a little bit and white like me I told the abbreviated version of the story but the longer version of the story is still not real long but I just want to give it to you for those who either forgot it or haven't read it or whatever else and also give you the expanded version of it when I started college I experienced a little bit of what this was I wasn't a very good student fact my freshman year I was a really lousy student just in the sense of not really having my stuff together not being real organized right and so that first year man final exams come around first semester and I just screwed up royally I showed up late to an exam that was like a four hour exam showed up two hours late right and then another exam I totally like I thought the exam was at one o'clock in the afternoon so I show up at one and apparently the test was given at ten you know so I missed it right I walked into the class I saw these students sitting around who I hadn't seen all semester right and I thought well they're not going to do very well on this they haven't been in class at all and they were looking at me like who the hell's that kid he hadn't been here in this physics class all year of physics I didn't take physics but this was a poli-sci exam the professor comes in I'm like oh my god I looked at the syllabus apparently for the first time in the semester which is where I realized the test was actually at 10 o'clock so I run hyperventilating to my professor right I'm like my god can't believe I did this I'm so sorry I tell them the story I'm crying right and because I know I'm in trouble like if I get an incomplete or at F in this particular class this was going to be my major I was going to have to start over I was going to lose my scholarship I was going to probably have to withdraw from school and so I fled my case and he was a good guy let me take the test in a room to the side of his office and ended up doing fine on the test and then come back after the winter break and I'm telling some friends this I'm telling a couple of black guys who were friends of mine three three guys african-american males all of whom were better students than me by the way had had better test scores in high school better grades they were far more serious students than I was and I'm telling them this story right about oh my god you won't believe what I did and thank god professor Davidson let me take the test again da da da da da right and they're all sort of real quiet as I'm telling them this story they're not saying anything and I'm sort of confused right I looked and I'm like why are you and they're sort of kicking the ground a little bit and looking up at each other and mumbling under their breath and I'm like I asked the one guy what's going on what are you thinking y'all seem to be thinking something but I'm not in on the I'm not in on what it is you know and he says man I don't know if I would have done that and I said done what like not not showing up for the test and he's like oh no I sure as hell wouldn't done that I'm a serious student Tim no I certainly wouldn't have done that he's like no he said I don't know that I would have gone and asked for the do-over right and then the other two guys were yeah yeah me either you know and I said wait a minute you're saying you would just take the incomplete take the F take the zero rather than just go and try to get he's like I don't know man I'm not saying that for sure like I don't ever want to find out what I would do in that situation so i'ma try barrel or not to but so my point is I don't know that I would because if I go and ask for the do-over to this white man he might be the nicest guy ever and he probably would have let me take it just like he let you take it I have no reason to assume right now that he's some kind of racist who would not let me where he let you but he but the problem would be if I go and admit that level of error right to him and he has to look me in my black face and see that level of inadequacy and failure is he going to take that out on other people that aren't me but look like me to remind him of the stereotype that well maybe those kids they don't deserve to be here anyway whereas if I do it I'm not worried about that I'm not worried that Professor Davidson is going to be like Oh white men good god what's wrong with them right I can't even read the damn syllabus like he's not going to do and I know he's not but this kid even though he's a better student right has to think about that that's the burden of representation that's a real thing that students of color face and that working-class students of all colors face students with disabilities face women in particularly in programs that are not traditionally dominated by women those that are traditionally dominated by men I mean this is a real thing this fear of confirming a negative stereotype right and so colorblind formalism can't help us with that we got to have a conscious understanding of what people face so that we can actually learn to speak to their needs and to meet their needs right we cannot treat everyone the same there are some students in your institution who will be worried right now about ice raids right we'll be worried right now about Immigration and Customs Enforcement coming to their house because somebody in that house might be undocumented or they may be a dreamer who was brought here at the age of 2 or 3 or whatever it is by their parents and they've been productive and helping out and doing things in this society ever since they were a kid but now they're facing potential deportation that kid is not an SI kid not kid like that student that young adult or that non-traditional age adult adult student here at the institution right is facing a very different reality and we have to understand that's going to affect everything from attendance to getting certain work done on time we have to be understanding of some of the pressures that are happening outside of that classroom right which include things like immigration crackdowns or just the fear that some folks have who were perfectly documented got all their papers in order butter looked at on the street as if they are and are treated differently on the basis of just their physicality as perhaps being your quote unquote illegally that's some real stuff and trying to hold it down educationally or even professionally as a staff member a faculty member anything else when you're facing those kinds of judgmental pressures can be quite difficult so we have to reject colorblind formalism adopt an attitude that is color and race and ethnicity and culture conscious so we can really meet people's because if not we're not going to be able to serve there's a whole lot of research on this in the classroom for instance which finds that students who were up against stereotypes and trying really hard to disprove them right because they have a real interest in disproving them and knocking them down right and debunking them that that actually creates so much pressure when you're trying to take a test or trying to perform academically that sometimes he end up underperforming precisely because you were trying so hard to disprove the negative stereotype right so years ago these researchers Claude Steele who was for a very long time the head of the psych department at Stanford he's now back there as an emeritus right psychology professor started wondering why it was that students of color were underperforming relative to white students even when they were really good students and it had a good academic record but when they would take a high-pressure test or something they would underperform or why women would underperform relative to men on a math exam a high-level math exam he knew they were just as good just as capable but they kept underperforming so they decided to do these experiments where they took the first they did women and men they took women and men who were both good at math put them in rooms each room had some men some women gave them the same math exam but one group was told hey look this is a test of your math ability this is going to tell us you know how good you are and so you know sort of the way you feel when you take a real test and the other group was given the same questions they were just as capable as the other folks over here given the same questions but they were told by the way this isn't a test of ability we're not even going to grade it it's just like we're just observing the way that people take tests or something right so I mean knock you was meaningless no pressure at all you're not even worried about how you're going to do because they're not going to know how you're going to do what do you think happens in the room where the pressure was on real world the women underperform right over here there was no difference at all why well the conclusion was that over here the women were worried about confirming a negative stereotype about women and math because that's a very common stereotype that math are better men are better at math and science and women even women who are great at math and science know that that stereotypes out there and they know that if they underperform they might get viewed as defective because they're women so when you put the pressure on and in their mind subconsciously perhaps they're thinking god I don't want to I don't want to confirm the stereotype they end up doing worse over here where there's no pressure about the stereotype it's not even going to be graded they can relax they do just as well they did it with white folks and black folks on a test they took white and black folks put them in a room told them it was a test of verbal ability the black students underperform but the same kind of folks in the room tell them it doesn't mean anything and there's no statistically significant difference in performance then they decided to do it in other areas just to see how strong this theory was they did it with athletics but they didn't do what you might expect like they didn't take a real stereotypical sport and have like white guys play black guys at basketball where all of those stereotypes would kick in right as ignorant as they are lots of people believe those stereotypes so they didn't do that what they did is they had them play miniature golf right white guys and black guys play in many golf's and in the first group they told them this is a test of your natural athletic ability for real have you ever played putt-putt the hell as let 'ok ability is there in putt-putt come on that doesn't require any sports ability per se but when you tell them that it triggers a stereotype doesn't it in the minds of which group the white folks now the white folks are like oh my god I'm playing many of your turqu off against those naturally athletic black guys and they always lose right then you have the same quality white and black guys play putt-putt you tell them it's a test of strategic sports intelligence which again what the hell is that in regard to many golf like there's no strategic sports intelligence it's just a matter of timing like wait till the elephant's nose moves three inches then hit the ball this is not about intellect but if they prop that stereotype now who freaks out the black guys freak out and they underperform because they're worried that if they don't do well oh it's going to trigger that stereotype about intelligence they've done it with older and younger folks on a test they took older folks in their 60s had them take a test against younger folks in their 20s told them it was a memory exam oh hell all right now the older folks were like oh my god if I don't do well they're going to think I have dementia all right and so they underperform because the extra stress you put the same kind of folks in the room give them a test element to test them learn to whizz and now the older folks are like got this right now younger folks are like oh my god I'm only 23 I don't know anything compared to my grandma here who I'm taking the test against right so the younger folks underperform what's the point of this in regard to education I ought to be obvious right if you're dealing with students who were up against various stigmas or stereotypes whether those are stereotypes about English English language skills and whether or not they really understand the language or learning the language or whether their documents that are undocumented and whether they're intelligent or unintelligent whether they're capable or not right and any student of color generally tends to be up against those kinds of stigmas and working-class students generally tend to be then unless you understand that you might not see what you're getting in the classroom you might not see what's going on in terms of performance in a given institution right the office that looks at those grades and determines whether someone gets to stick around or not right might not understand that there's more going on than just preparation there's more going on than ability there's a lot of stuff that certain folks are up against that others are not if you take a color conscious approach then we can intervene there's lots of things we can do we know the research on stereotype threat which is what that phenomena is called right says that if you encourage group work more than individual work right you have students work together collaborate on projects that reduces some of the pressure right because now I don't have to take it all on my own shoulders so I'm not worried about like if I drop the ball because we're holding the ball right so there was a guy in the calculus department at Stanford many years ago who figured this out the black students and the Latino students were doing worse in the calculus lab than the white students and the asian students but he knew that they were just as good just as capable but he noticed when he observed the way they studied that the black kids and the Latino kids would study by themselves and the white and the Asian kids tended to study in groups and even though he didn't use the language of stereotype threat he surmised that maybe that's the problem the the the other kids are studying just as hard but they're taking all the pressure on themselves so what'd he win it he went in and said new rule is we all got to have study groups y'all got it got to team up and have partners right and three or four people on a team or whatever and y'all are going to work together and as soon as you made that one change the grades equalized and the black and Latino students were doing just as well as the white and Asian students it's the only change he made just made one change in the way that the classroom was being managed that's just one example there are other examples of things you can do and you can probably think of some yourselves about the way that institutions can encourage a reduction in stereotype threat part of it also is the tone that the school sets from the very beginning and the teacher set from the beginning about the ability that students have I remember going to college and you know in France it was sort of a hoity-toity semi elite institution but still man lots of schools sort of make it seem like this is going to be really hard you'll be lucky to even get out of here alive I remember the I remember them saying like look to your left look to your right in four years two of you won't be here okay what the hell kind of thing is that to say like first of all what does that say about your admissions team right like your admissions team lets in two-thirds of the people that aren't even good enough to be here you need to fire the entire admission see like they should be better at their jobs than that right we don't want to say to people that you'll be lucky to get we want to say to people that you a you deserve to be here be you're capable of succeeding and every one of you is and it doesn't mean that everybody will but we got to convey that capacity to everybody right and because I think a lot of times students come in and they think they don't have the aptitude for certain things right and that's a huge strike against you if you start out with the ID because somebody might have told you that I remember thinking I didn't have math aptitude right and the reason I was convinced to that was I'd started off a really good student in math until about fifth grade and then it just all went downhill right so I decided oh I guess I just don't have the aptitude for math and of course come to find out yours later aptitude is pretty much a myth right for the most part there are very few true learning disabilities that make it impossible for anyone to learn virtually anything if it is presented to them in the proper way in a way that connects with them pedagogically right but but but we get that in our head you know what the real issue with my fear of math was and this is true of every single person guarantee you in this room who hates math isn't good at math has this a math phobia or whether it's because you had crappy math instruction it's the truth it's the truth and if you love math and if you went into Matt it's because you had some good math instruction and that made all the difference I remained off to math it was because at some point you had that teacher in seventh grade or eighth or ninth grade sat there at the overhead projector right and was just mumbling just mumbling doing theorems and postulates and never even looked up to see that everybody was sleeping so then you decide then you decide you don't have aptitude and once you decide that you give up right we got to make sure people know aptitude is mythical aptitude to learn a language that isn't your language of origin that's a myth babies learn language right and they learn and you know it's hard to learn I mean you know you don't experience it is hard it just sort of miraculously seems to happen but it shows that we have the capacity for it every student needs to know that not only they have the capacity but that we believe that they have the capacity one more thing that's a faulty premise and this is a really hard one for people but I think it is V linchpin one and then I'll be done we'll do the survey and we'll have some conversation um I think one of the biggest faulty premises that we operate under within the world of education is the idea that gosh you know the system seems to just be failing certain students and seems to be breaking down and what can we do to make the system work and that sounds like a great premise right if we could just get a little more money for this a little bit more training for this all right a little bit more attention to this detail over here we could fix the system let me tell you something this system isn't broken at all and that's the horrible thing to come to realize this system is working exactly as it was intended to work and I know this is difficult to hear what I'm trying to suggest you is that inequality is not a glitch in the machine it is the machine and I want you to know that this is true because not because I say it but because the whole history of educational theory in this country and practice tells me it's true let's go back over the ways Thomas Jefferson and who was obviously one of the quote-unquote founding fathers but he was also considered at the time educational theorist of some note he was the founder of the University of Virginia as you may well know he was one of the leading educational thinkers of his day and in notes on the state of Virginia one of his most famous writings he said the following he said you know we need to have compulsory education about 6 years in every community because I guess in 1780 whatever like six years was good that's all you needed right six years of compulsory schooling now he only meant that for white people by the way let's just be clear he didn't mean that and only really white man he didn't mean that for white women either he certainly didn't mean it for black folks didn't mean it for anyone who was indigenous you know he was just talk about white folks we need six years of compulsory schooling so that we can rake a few geniuses from the rubbish thang his words not mine so now what was he saying he was saying in effect that most people are rubbish and he said again just talking about white folks goes without saying he didn't think much of black people he owned over two hundred and seventy five of them doesn't go with it we doesn't have to prove much that he didn't care much about indigenous people he talked about hunting them until the ends of the earth as a matter of fact and exterminating them so he's just talking about white folks basically calling most white folks trash you know but we're going to rake a few geniuses from the rubbish if we just give him six years and we can separate out who's really smart and who's not in other words what he was saying was the purpose of schooling is not to be the great equalizer which is the myth we operate under now right it was actually intended to be a none equalizer and this is critical for us to start with that premise because if we will ask a lot of educators and people in higher ed and k12 why did they get into it and they talk about I think education is the great equalizer but at what point in our history is it ever function that way if it wasn't even set up that way and you think that's what it's for you're not paying attention to the Machine right so if he says no the purpose is inequality I'll take him at his word right then fast-forward Woodrow Wilson before he becomes president of the United States he too was president of Princeton and he was a educational thinker and theorist considered very progressive for his day in spite of the fact he was a horrible vicious racist possibly the worst to ever occupy the White House and he talked about in his days and role as an educator he said something very similar to Jefferson he said you know what we need is one group to prepare themselves for the receipt of a liberal education that was the term for college education in this day but what we need is a larger group by necessity to forgo that privilege and prepare themselves to perform certain difficult manual tasks right in other words what he was saying was we don't want everybody to get a degree we need some folks to do the really hard stuff that the rest of us are too precious and to Goodin's too smart to do in other words we still want to rake some geniuses from the rubbish it's still about in equality now fast forward to the early 2000s I'm watching television on Sunday one of those sunday shows right and William Bennett is on some of y'all will remember the name bill Bennett was the Secretary of Education he was until recently the worst Secretary of Education in the history of the country he was the Secretary of Education under Reagan and he was also the drug czar he didn't do either one of these jobs real well but he had both of them and he was on the show and I don't remember which show it was Meet the Press or one of those but at one point I'm sitting there having my coffee and I asked Bill Bennett what's the biggest problem with American education today now that's a huge question right that's that's like a big question that requires some contemplation like if I've been the guest on the show and you ask me a big question like that I'd probably say like hey can we go to break and come back in like three minutes and I'll think about it because I don't want to get this wrong I want to really give it some thought of course bill Bennett didn't do that Bill Bennett had an answer by God right he was ready and his answer was think about this think about this he says the biggest problem in education today is we have too many people going to college now ask yourself before you ask yourself this here's the thing I'm sitting there it's early I'm barely awake and he says the biggest problem is we got too many people going to college now I tried to give him credit I shouldn't have done this I knew better but tried to give him credit cuz you know how sometimes you'd be saying something to somebody and your throat will catch like mid-sentence and you're not done yet you didn't finish your thought yet so I thought maybe he was going to continue his thought like maybe there was an internal ellipses you know the little dot dot dot in the middle of his sentence and what he meant to say was there's too many people going to college dot dot dot who can't afford it because it's too damn expensive like that would have been a really good statement and a true statement and I would have said okay not bad or maybe he was going to say too many people are going to college dot dot dot who aren't adequately prepared because we haven't truly prepared them in our k12 system that too would have been a fine statement but there was no dot dot dot there was no comma no - nothing just a period at the end of the sentence and it was then that I'm figuring well surely they're going to press him on that what do you mean too many people which ones who are we talking about that they didn't they let it drop and so I got to thinking about it because I'm trying to figure out who does he mean right does he mean the rich and mediocre children of rich and mediocre parents who themselves were the children of rich and mediocre parents and generations of rich and mediocre people because I've known lots of rich and mediocre people in my time most of us have right born on third base think they hit a triple right got to take over their daddy's real estate portfolio worth two hundred and twenty three million dollars in the mid-1970s when New York property could be bought up for a song and 20 cents and became a billionaire want you to think they're self-made alright alright then right there have always been rich people that didn't really have to do a lot and they've always been poor and working-class folks of all colors that busted their ass every day got nothing to show for it we all know that we know those people there in our families right and yet we have this belief in rugged individualism and belief that the talent will rise to the top and so when he says that I start thinking about who does he mean he doesn't mean the rich and media for we know they're going to college and we know that all those kids in prep school I've given talks at prep schools I know they're a lot of inadequate students in prep schools right but they're going to get a job and they're going to go to college and they're going to go to business school and they're going to go to law school and they're going to become doctors right so he's not talking about too many of them we know they're going there the Masters of the Universe there the presumed geniuses that we're going to rate from the brothers who he's talking about whether he has the guts to say it out loud or not right the kind of students that this system serves right working-class first-generation lower middle class and middle class students overwhelmingly disproportionately and in large numbers students of color right because those are the ones who are coming into the system in some cases for the first time the new comers to higher ed that's it's really the mentality of the slave owner all right it really is I don't mean to be hyperbolic but it's the mentality of the slave owner because what was the slave owner saying if everybody learns to read who's going to pick this pot right by the same token if everybody gets a degree even if it's an associate's degree anybody gets a degree who's going to pick up the garbage they're gonna think they're too good for that well I got news for you first of all let's remember picking up the garbage is one of the most important jobs in the world like if those guys that do my work if those guys that pick up my garbage in my alley every Wednesday don't show up for six weeks right we got plague on my block all right if I don't show up for work for six weeks life will go on nobody will really even know the guy that sells pharmaceuticals down the road or the stockbroker he doesn't show up life will go on those guys who make nineteen five a year without many benefits in Nashville where I live right they'd be one of the most important jobs why are we afraid that if they are have access to higher ed in greater numbers somehow they're not going to want to do that why can't we all do part of that work why is it that some of us think that we're above doing some of that physical labor so I don't even know where the landfill is y'all that they don't show up I'm screwed right I don't know where the recycler I don't know where any of that is because I live in a system that doesn't require me to know so we have a system predicated on inequality some will do this kind of work some will do this kind of work and if that's the system we have and you're expecting the educational system to produce equality or equity in an economic system that's about inequality you're not paying attention to the Machine it's like going to a sausage factory right it says sausage factory right on the outside on the sign it says sausage factory and you go to the end of the conveyor belt and you're like all right when am I gonna get some chicken nuggets never because it's not a chicken nugget factory it's a sausage factory read the sign right so if we have a system that's about inequality you can't be shocked when it produces it what does that mean for those of us in education it means we have to realize something that to be an educator to be an administrator to be a staffer at an institution of learning higher learning in particular is to be a revolutionary or to be a collaborator with that system of inequalities and if we start with the mentality that we're not here to make the system function better we're here to change the system we're here to up end this notion of inequality as normal we're here to challenge the idea that the cream always rises to the top right sometimes the cream is heavy and it sinks right and sometimes those who we expect the least from are the most capable I worked in public housing as a community organizer for like 15 months and I saw some of the most capable hard-working people I ever met they're right contrary to our stereotype I remember right folks would tell me whenever I would tell them who I worked with the poor folks that I worked with the people who were quote-unquote welfare recipients and we look down on in this culture they would always offer me unsolicited advice for them but I was just supposed to pass along you know here's what these people need oh great they never met these people but they think they know what they need and they would always say what we need is we need to have some CEOs and you know corporate executives go into the into the quote unquote ghetto and teach these poor people how to manage money are you kidding get rich people to tell poor people how to manage money the hell man if you're rich enough you can manage write it in fact you don't even have to manage your own dough when you're rich that's the point you hire out right you hire somebody else to manage your money rich people don't manage their own money all right they got other stuff to do they got other rich people stuff to do other people are managing their money form you know what takes skill not managing millions of dollars let alone billions you know what takes Talent what those women in public housing we're doing living on 327 a month keeping their children alive that takes skills so maybe what we need is the mentality that says every day we come to work as educators every day we come to work in a community college system intended to serve the community we look at the people are not just as sort of human resources that we're to sort of form like clay right but we look at them as promissory notes to a different future in this country a different future where folks regardless of ethnicity and culture and race and economic station and language of origin skills right can truly achieve what they're capable of achieving without the assumptions and the stereotypes of race and class and culture and linguistics but the only way that's going to happen is for us to come in everyday with that mentality that this is a war right not in the violent sense but in the ideological sense and we are soldiers in that war whose job is to defeat the cynicism of a system set up by these supposedly great and learned men right but a system that was set up to crush the very kinds of people who come through these doors every day this system wasn't set up for them so when it doesn't serve them that's not failure that is success if you want the system to begin to serve them you've got to build a different machine thank you all so much for being here appreciate [Applause] thank you thank you so I I think we might do a little bit of a shift we were scheduled today take a break are you comfortable staying and just instantly going into the poll I see a lot of nodding because I think we're charged up and ready to go okay so we are going to do a shift here we're going to bring up Nani who is way in the back Nani Jackson's Park is going to join us on stage I'm going to draw the blinds or the drapes here this is a place where we actually want you to get out your cell phones so go ahead and grab those cell phones one Oh me well now so we going to sit here for this okay and people see or am i I may be in the way which put your text and we want you to text 3 7 6 SSS yes sorry exactly okay you're going to text to the number three seven six oh seven the words that you will text in the message line RP j Highland because it is all about me PJ hyl a nd you should receive a message right back.that from poll everywhere and mine said you've joined Patricia Highland session PJ Highland when you're done reply leave issues I hear some pinging I think you're getting in okay so to start this you can see the first question on the board and just in case I will read the question to you the dynamics Tim talked about in his presentation for example ways that systemic oppression play out happen in our district a is strongly agree B agree see not sure D disagree and II strongly disagree and by the way this is anonymous yes okay the dynamics Tim talked about in his presentation for example ways that systemic oppression play out happen in our district a strongly agree B agree C not sure D disagree and E strongly disagree and by the way the folks at DeAnza are able to prove participate in well there's some live-streaming going on a Danza okay we're still getting some votes okay we're going to move on to the second question that was a mom the second question I believe my race plays a role in how I am treated in the district and has resulted in situations where I have experienced privilege or have felt targeted as described by Tim in his presentation a strongly agree B agree C not sure D disagree II strongly disagree and I'm going to read the question again I believe my race plays a role in how I am treated in the district and has resulted in situations where I have experienced privilege or have felt targeted as described by Tim in his presentation okay moving on to the third question I believe our community the district office in campuses is ready to openly discuss issues related to privilege and oppression a strongly agree B agree C not sure D disagree II strongly disagree again the question I believe our community parenthesis district office and campuses is ready to openly discuss issues related to privilege and oppression it's kind of cool in it all right let's go to the next one I feel equipped to move forward and address issues of privilege and oppression a strongly agree B agree C not sure D disagree II strongly disagree again the question I feel equipped to move forward and address issues of privilege and oppression okay next question after listening to this presentation I don't know how people are looking this quick after listening to this presentation in conversation I feel a very comfortable be somewhat comfortable see neutral D somewhat uncomfortable or e very uncomfortable again after listening to this presentation and conversation I feel a very comfortable be somewhat comfortable I'm sorry be somewhat comfortable C neutral D somewhat uncomfortable and e very uncomfortable so this is where we're going to stop on the pole for this moment this was to inform both Nani and Tim so that they could engage in some dialogue with you having gotten some feedback from the Foothill DeAnza community on e Jackson's Park and I'm a consultant who's doing some work with your campus and district community to advance your equity initiatives and this is a very interesting response we would really like this to be an interactive conversation with a couple points one is that this is one of many conversations that are related to this and we recognize and really want to speak to the fact that we we have about 45 minutes to have this conversation which isn't a sufficient time to really delve into the discussions in the ways that they are meant to be addressed so we really hope that you will continue to have these conversations deep meaningful conversations after today in a variety of ways so I would invite you Tim to speak to your response to the results was this flash polling well first off I just it's hilarious to actually give a presentation and then basically people are being pulled on like so what do you think about that and you're like and you're like sitting there you sort of like I don't want to look at it I really want to particularly thank the folks who didn't apparently agree with it or found it uncomfortable but I really appreciate that because that's not always easy to steal a I know some crap you know so that's not necessarily what you're saying when you say you're uncomfortable you could actually think it's legit and still be uncomfortable but when you say like the stuff isn't happening if the institution I appreciate that and I think it's important to know why you think that and and to hear that perspective and to discuss that perspective so I appreciate everyone you know sort of weighing in on it and I and particularly because I very deliberately did not want to try to predetermine what the specific action items at the institution and throughout the system need to be it was a very deliberate choice I mean I've got some ideas right but I think that those are the things that are found in community solutions are found in community and here you have this ready-made community of very capable people you're more than capable of figuring it out I wanted to frame it sort of in terms of paradigms right in terms of overarching sort of views of what we're here to do and what are the things that keep us from doing it particularly because we are smart people and I think we're mostly really compassionate people and we want to get it right but none of us have quite figured out how to how to solve this riddle yet which either means that we're not as smart as we think right or we might be as smart as we think but maybe we're asking the wrong questions and we're trying to solve the wrong riddle which is really the point that I was wanting to convey and then after that you'll have all this opportunity not just this 45 minutes right but long after we're out of here to think about what that means at every level of the institution how do we operationalize these new paradigms this way of thinking how do we instill that in any of the new hires at the institution how do we instill that in the students that come through the institution how do we convey those mentalities to the families of the students who come through the institution that that that will be the part you do so I'm heartened by this but at the same time I know that you know anytime you have a survey I mean this is a this is a pretty often used form of a survey a model of a survey but you know when you ask questions that are strongly agree agree not sure strongly disagree or disagree it's still imprecise when you're right on the book so you know let's not take this as gospel I don't look at that and go oh people are really comfortable I don't necessarily buy that or or yeah I think we're real clear on how this plays out in the district well you know maybe you feel pretty clear right now cuz you just heard a presentation right but maybe in a week you want something will happen and you'll go in a different direction so I think it's a very fluid thing but it's a good starting spot right another dynamic is that the goal isn't really for comfort this comfort can be a really strong tool and negotiating our relationships with discomfort and what our discomfort can teach us and tell us is important as well given your point about this being you know kind of a broad brushstroke tool and and there being many different complexities that are related to that well there are two microphones on either side of the room and we would love to hear a few responses to maybe paint some finer detail on your responses to the poll are there a few folks who might then could you go to the mics just because I know that it's being videotaped they're just right on behind you on either side anyone who wants a mic but isn't physically able to get to them we'll bring it to you absolutely thank you for that so my observation is that there seems to be a community of people at least on the Foothill campus that are very committed to equity and to issues of racial inequality and who show up repeatedly at these sorts of events I see a lot of familiar faces here and there's another segment of campus that is completely divorced from the conversation so answering a question like to what degree do you like people are participating in the movement forward as Tim was just saying is a little bit complicated because some people are moving forward really quickly and other people are completely not engage so I feel like the real challenge ahead of us is how to bring those people in and convince them that this is a thing that they should want to be engaged with I think part of the problem sometimes in institutions is that we have a cadre of people who are engaged because perhaps the discipline that they teach is one that regularly engages these questions in some way and so they become the usual suspects in an academic setting we know they're going to show up because they teach this kind of subject or they teach that they teach a certain social science they teach literature they teach history they teach whatever and I think there are a lot of other people who actually might be really interested in the subject but they don't know how it relates to their discipline or they don't know how they would work any of that into their practice right and and then there are other people who don't know how it fits in their discipline and are convinced it does so we got really three groups right one that's already sort of in it because their discipline leads them in that direction others who might want to be in it but don't know where to start and others who are just like what does this have to do with hard sciences and math you know now here's the reality that there's a lot of research on that which actually finds that there are specific techniques and ways pedagogically to bring that kind of material that doesn't seem to be about race or ethnicity or culture at all particularly in areas like math and science to students that will be more effective than other ways when they are working-class when they are persons of color when they are English language learners if you don't know what that research says then you're not going to be able to plug into it right but if there are certain approaches that work better with this group over here than with this group it's your job professionally to figure out what that is and and to look that up and to do a little bit of homework because you know it's like I've made a joke several years ago even even people in the in the traditional disciplines that talk about race I know a lot of lit professors literature professors who talk about race and English class but you know if you're if you're if you haven't updated your skill set and your pedagogical tools to take advantage of a different constituency set than would have been let's say 30 years ago then you you're not you're not really a good educator any long because the students who were here 30 years ago different than the ones who were here now the ones that were here 50 years ago different than it can it's like if you're a Shakespeare scholar for instance and and you don't know feminist critiques of Shakespearean literature multicultural critiques of Shakespearean literature which have been very prominent in the last thirty years then you are not a Shakespeare scholar anymore you are a Shakespeare scholar in 1713 you're a hell of a Shakespeare scholar in 1926 but we're not in those years we're here and so everybody I think needs to recognize there are some ways to make sure that no matter what you're teaching it's about figuring out if not everyone is getting it if not everyone is succeeding at the same rate you either have to make one of two assumptions either this group over here is just straight-up inferior which is an inherently racist belief right or something's going wrong between your mouth and their ears as an educator or as an administrator something's happening that isn't clicking and so I think that's how we bring more people in is to let them know this is their issue too and it's about it's about how do we get everyone to succeed to the level of their true abilities which are far more equal than we like to sometimes believe and certainly more equal than the stereotypes tell us and if and if we're not doing that then let's figure out how to do it and there might be a lot of different approaches but it's our job to to discover them and not always leave it up to the same five departments or same 10 or 15 folks who always talk about this stuff hi um I teach English and I've been doing a lot of work around equity and I really appreciate the point that you said it's about community the solutions around community and I think that if we're really going to be serious as a Community College we have to put our mission statement into effect all of the solutions are there we've already known them we've identified them so it's about the practices and what we fear that is really preventing us from actually seeing each other as community so for me it's just like a really going to get serious about being community because we have the knowledge the diversity the capacity the the population for me this is the place where I think it should happen and it should happen organically because we have people coming from so many different a socio-economic means that those diversity that is president present in any community college is the solution so how are we not engaging as community first and foremost before assessment time lines I mean right now this mostly the seats are empty why where are students what's what's going on and for me I think it's also important for us to see the cliff we're headed towards I'm not sure that I'm going to have social security or a pension in 20 years just because I'm faculty and I have health insurance does it mean that our government is going to head and secure those those jobs and that privilege that I've acquired so we need to be very urgent because our students are in a much more precarious situation so it's time for us to really just figure out how we are going to be community with how we're going to actually put our mission statement into effect I don't have the solution but I have some strategies and we all have the way I see it and this is what I tell my students you have the pieces of the puzzle bring it share it be a collective be a learning community and we'll all improve and succeed and as a community college of educators we should practice what we already stated in our mission statement Nestle very well thing we have time for one more comment and then we're going to break into some small groups for discussions to speak to exactly on the point that you've just made so well so one more comment yeah hi so I just actually it's a piggybacking on the two last comments that were made just in looking at the poll numbers and speaking specifically to that I really feel like a big population is not represented there and that is their students and that if we're talking about these issues we really need to figure out a way to have our students current and future and former here so I don't know what to do with those numbers and what that's telling me without their voice a part of it well I think I think you definitely need to ask these same questions that we just asked of you of the student population you know how much do they think you're serious about engaging these conversations right obviously not having been in the room they they can't answer a question about the presentation content but but in general and that goes back to the first point I made about trusting people's judgement about their own life right and are we prepared to hear what those answers might sound like which is no I don't think that we're serious and and going back to the comment about the mission I mean this is this is so critical that that every single thing I mean you know if I were to ask most students and maybe even most of you in this room do you know what the mission of the institution is like not word for word but but pretty clearly without having to look it up the odds are maybe not because I don't think we tend to focus a lot on that and it may seem esoteric but it's really important you have a mission statement it says why you exist right and every decision you make ought to be filtered through that lens every single thing that happens ought to be about does it up hold the mission or not and it's important to convey what that mission is to people in the institution so they know because building community it's not just about it's not some charitable thing that we do for the folks that are being marginalized every single one of you that works in this institution has an interest in advocating for whoever's here right and and advocating with whoever is here and if the public keep in mind for the last 30 to 40 years anything that is associated with a public good whether that is publicly financed education whether that is publicly financed transportation whether that is publicly financed healthcare whether that is publicly financed parks right anything that's public has been falling into disrepute has it not where it's almost like no no we just want to privatize things and and and and you know if you really study this research on this the reason that's happened is because public goods have been increasingly associated with different kinds of people than used to be the case when the public goods were New Deal programs being provided to white families everybody loves big cover and the minute that it was government stuff that baby was being perceived as being given to those people who look different prey different have different customs different language different culture then all of a sudden we started rethinking our commitment to the public well that ain't about politics now if you work in this institution your joy your literal career your future is is about making sure the public values public and community based institutions so those students become literally the lifeline for your careers it says this is about self l basically we're just trying to help y'all you know those who were in the dominant group need to understand like like whoever comes through those doors you better hope the public values them not just that you do but that the public does because that's going to affect your budgets so this is again this is oh this is an ideological war that has to be fought to build that sense of community go ahead one more yeah oh okay so I'm just kind of disappointed that we do have so many empty chairs here today and I'm very honored that you're here and joining us I've read your work so Wow I just really I just wonder how can we do this work in a way where we have more faculty because we do struggle with I think folks who tell their classes you know not all of you are going to be here by the middle of the of the quarter and by the end it'll be even fewer so how do we if we are so comfortable dealing with this which is amazing that we're that comfortable sometimes it doesn't feel like we're this comfortable dealing with this topic if we are how do we turn this around what do we do after today to make sure our students that are afraid of ice raids and impacted by that and and don't necessarily walk in the same comfort we do actually get closer to it yeah take a stab at one of the issues that that Tim addressed in a way that I really resonated with in his presentation is that if you build the system to produce sausages then the expectation and surprise that you have that when you're getting Chicken McNuggets or when you're not getting chicken McNuggets really speaks to that when I work with organizations one of the things that I ask is how is it that your system creates an outcome where faculty can survive and be successful with those expectations what are the expectations how is the system built to expect pedagogical competencies and I've worked with college colleges and we start talking about what is it that you want your faculty and staff members to know what is it that you want your student leaders to know what knowledge that's what skills and and and relationships to community will help them to be successful and then you look at some of the required competencies and skill and they don't reflect anything about what it takes to be successful in a contemporary learning environment and so really some of those questions go back to what are the systems that not only are you creating and this is not just you as in Foothill DeAnza what are the systems that you are creating and allowing to exist and do they as Tim said do they all roll up to what you say your mission is and what your heart and spirit and minds desire most for your students and then if they don't if the ways that you're working and operating don't roll up to your hearts and minds and spirits desires for your students then there's a change necessary and then it is necessary that those old ways become intolerable for you right I mean what was what would happen if just to think of one thing if if people were evaluated if faculty and staff administrators people who have direct contact with students and are responsible at least in part for nurturing them and getting them through an institution what what if your your promotion your your career was evaluated in part on the extent to which you helped reduce gaps in failure to complete right I mean what if and why should it be why shouldn't that be one of the things that regularly because if a teacher is effective at getting some people through but not others and there's a discernible difference it has to do with class or race or ethnicity or culture why is that not a ding on their on their evaluation why is that allowed why is it okay to have big gaps between white students and students of color or middle class students and working class students or you know English language learners and others it seems to me if I'm an effective educator I ought to be able I'm not going to reach every single student not every single student is going to succeed but there shouldn't be discernible group based differences that are significant unless I start with the assumption that there are discernible group based differences inherent to those groups which makes me a racist by definition and should disqualify me from setting foot in a classroom teaching anybody so so at some point that's got to be part of the evaluation and if we do that students will see it students will know oh well those are some competencies that we're now actually testing for in a sense right we we're a country that likes to measure what we value and we value only that which we measure so if we're not measuring our effectiveness at reducing guests than what we're saying is we don't really value it and if we are measuring it then we're saying that we do and we're trying to get better at it yes I just want to thank you and everyone here for having this conversation you certainly started us thinking about a lot of different things I now see this as a micro and macro type challenge and then at the micro level at the classroom at the institution we are working really hard to work come into equality and diversity and things like that but my question to you is at the macro level you mentioned the government and you know we get mandates from the federal government from the state government and sometimes they tell us that we have to do certain things and I don't know if we could do those things and I don't know if those are a good mandate for us and so I'm really concerned about that and another concern I have is you know the textbook company that we now are using from K through 12 maybe even from preschool to higher education I think we are not looking at that source and I just want your opinion or strategies to you know bring it out there and then maybe challenge those guys a little bit more what is our work how can we go beyond the micro level thank you let me go first on that um again in response to that and and I want and I'd like to address something that you just said as well in terms of some of the dynamics that you just talked about in preparation in textbooks and looking at how systems of dominant shape thought and and how we are critical about our involvement and addressing and using our voice and agency and all of those things to examine how the systems result in the results they do and sometimes we're not as critical in our reflections about how all of these things come together so in talking about textbooks for example in terms of voice what are the textbooks telling our students about who they are in some doctoral research I had the chance to talk with scholars of color and one of the Native American men who participated in my study said you know every year I would start in elementary school by opening up the indices of my textbooks and seeing what did they say about people like me did they celebrate people like me was there any recognition that people who looked and acted and thought and belonged like me had done anything worthy of being celebrated in the history books and he said that finally in his high school years there were some mentions but the mentions weren't accurate they were certainly not they didn't promote any sense of cultural integrity so then I think about in at the micro and the macro level how are we using our voice to interrupt disrupt challenge and and then build the bridge from challenge to support because the same student services' the same developmental challenges that we have for students to challenge and support link to the comment that you made about what do we do to support educators and and my team uses the term educator very broadly it's its faculty members and its student services folks and its students it's its folks are in communities whose jobs are to support the learning of others both in terms of the classic idea of a student and then the rest of us as learners what what how do we then bridge that challenge and support for folks who's whose pedagogical notions are outdated and then are kind of like butting up against that reality and they see the rest of the world changing in their midst we are no longer you know the agrarian or industrial society where it isn't in people's best interests to make sure that everyone has access to education we're now on a knowledge economy and our communities depend on educational institutions and their abilities to make access to education real and viable so what it takes now and the knowledge of the diverse needs that students from a incredibly wide range of communities bring to our door you have to demand that of all the educators on your campus of what happens to the people who then have this dawning awareness that wow I don't know what you need me to know and I don't know how to do what you're asking me to do so I don't want to have a part in these conversations I would guess that if it wasn't a self-selected population we would have larger numbers and this idea makes me really really uncomfortable now again I am NOT an enemy of discomfort when people say Nani as a consultant you you know I feel really uncomfortable with what you're saying I say pretty regularly my job is not to make you comfortable the idea that it is my job to facilitate comfortable conversations is kind of a supremacist notion right whose comfort is more important the students we need to be uncomfortable for the learners we need to be uncomfortable for or our own because we're afraid of what comes next so one of the challenges then is how do you set a vision for here's what we need you to know here's what we need you to be able to do and then how do you provide the support and the scaffolding to say and we're going to create a system that values you as a contributor and we're going to build your capacity to do that and so you know in in coming and talking to a lot of you it is this underlying current and and concern that has been voice of well am I gonna if our campuses and district office really engage equity am I going to be excluded from this conversation in a way that I can't survive and the goal is no and there are expectations and the challenge will be to hold the dualities that are in that very real conversation it's no really our community should do our best to help you scaffold and support you to build your capacity to do that but if you decide that you really don't care then it's probably time for you to decide if this is the best place for you so there are a lot of complexities in that conversation and I would just add going to the piece about textbooks and learning and you know you're you're dealing with students and even yourselves who if you haven't been exposed to that different paradigm of of the world if you haven't if the students come in and they haven't been exposed to the narrative that includes them and and this isn't just racial and ethnic working-class folks including working-class white folks who make up a disproportionate share of the white students who come through community colleges are also not really part of a narrative about this country that we learn our narrative is usually about heroic founding fathers soldiers and billionaires or millionaires who built the economy we don't really learn about working average everyday working folks generally right so the narrative has been both class-exclusive and raising culture exclusive so if you've got students who are coming in having been really marginalized from the story whether on the basis of one or several of those identities and you as an educator you know you can't teach what you don't know so if you weren't taught those things either then there's an opportunity for us to actually see ourselves as being in that boat with those students we've all been misled right we're sort of halfway down the conveyor belt in the sausage factory and up to now we've all been shaped by the machine to know some things and to not know something and so it's not your students fault if they don't see themselves in the story and it's not your fault if you don't know how they fit in the story but the job of an institution is not only to help them find that to help you find that it's professional development to say we want you to learn that along with them now all of a sudden there's a solidarity there it's about saying let's let's together what has been left out that's what creating the community is about let's learn together how we've all been miss shapen and underserved which is a term I hate because it implies passivity but but how have we been ill served better a better way of saying badly served by an educational system that hasn't really included everyone and and the fact that you're having to pick up after 12 years or 13 years of that process where folks have been you know steered away from their own sense of competency their own sense of of efficacy is really unfortunate the question is what do you do with that and that's why I think if you take the mentality that we're going to fight this this sort of this machine together right it conveys a very different mentality to the student that makes them feel like you're not just a you know sort of sage on the stage talking head giving them information as a teacher as student services person is administrative but you're someone is you know invested in learning with them how to make the community a truly functional one in the interest of time and the last thing that we wanted to come out of this conversation and that is what is your investment if we're going to talk about community and it's so great that things happen as they're supposed to I think so the theme that has been brought up of community kind of organically in your conversation if you're invested as a community what is your investment that's the last thing that we would like to talk with you about again this is a conversation that cannot happen in totality in the very few moments that we have so we're really talking about many many conversations much more engagement much more strategic engagement in the future and each of you as part of this community have to make an investment so we're going to invite you for about ten minutes to gather in small groups some of you are seated a little more distance from others so if you could cluster and and we talk about what is your own individual investment in this and then we're going to ask a few people to talk about what are you going to do and again this isn't an absence of greater systemic strategic planning and community building and facilitated efforts to move forward but if you think of yourself as a member of a very uncommitted and and powerful community and I don't tend to use the word empowered because it has this kind of feeling that someone gives you the power but if today you decide that you have the power to enact change in your community what's your contribution so we'll invite you to have that conversation for a few minutes and then we will invite you a few of you to talk about compelling things that come in your conversation could you take your seats there are there's a couple of things that we're going to do before we have you respond to this last slide a couple of folks said you know I still was was really wishing to have the opportunity to ask a question so we're going to have these two mics one more time if you would like to ask a question at least two folks came up during the break and asked me if they could ask a question so if you would head to one of those two mics both Tim and nonny said they would be more than happy to answer a few more so here we go so I have a question more around the idea of organizational change with regards to racial equity and like maybe the best approach about how to do that because a lot of it we've been talking about you know messages that we're getting from on high and how that impacts our ability to do the little things that can sort of move this equity conversation and I feel like this in the time that I've been an employee of the college and within the district that I've consistently noticed this tension between the idea that true change and a true belief in equity comes through sort of that relational that relationship building people's desire to want to see that happen and then on the other hand knowing both historically and you know just seeing the trends that sometimes appealing to people's morality or sense of morality is not what moves equity right policies and laws that were put in place to ensure equity did not come about because we appealed to the morality of people it was having enough people in positions of power to make that change and so the question is I feel like I'm always noticing this tension between sort of wanting people to move on their own and then another set of people saying you know well we just need to implement the policies and force people along you know sort of kicking and screaming because that's just what needs to happen cuz you know it's a moral issue and that if we just wait for people to kind of jump on board then you know we're going to be waiting for the longest time or continuously centering the conversation of equity around the comfort level or the discomfort level people who this conversation I don't wanna say isn't really about but you know centering that conversation in a different direction so it's just wondering your thoughts on that because well I don't think that there's a necessary contradiction between an approach that says that there's a moral imperative for equity and one that says there's a practical imperative I think we think of those things as distinct but the truth is if some if equity is a moral imperative than anything that doesn't get us there or makes it worse practically is ethically a challenge thing and if and if and if this is the proper way to go or if this is something that actually can benefit the institution then it has ethical legs and so I think the two can work together and let me give you an example of what I mean I think you know the point that when we're talking about the mission and we were taught and I made the point about you know the importance of creating community because the continuity of this very institution requires it that's not really a moral argument I mean I think there's a moral argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to provide opportunity to those who have been excluded from opportunity both historically and contemporaneously but that's really a functional argument that's an argument about the long-term viability of the community college system whether that's in California or anywhere else in the country it's about the long-term viability not just of the community college system I would say the same thing when I went to I wanted to give a speech at Phillips Exeter which is you know one of the most you know hoity-toity prep schools in the United States and for the last 40 years they have been to their credit now they still got a ton of issues as you can imagine but Phillips Exeter which at one point was just rich white East Coast males and then it became co-ed and now it's almost 40% students of color and that's not just because they're plucking international folks you know and bringing them over for a lot of money it's also we're talking folks of color in the United States a lot of black folks and brown folks who are now students there now are they experiencing no issues well of course not there's still racism and stuff but but here's what they've done they made or they recognize this Phillips Exeter net that that has been able to coast on an elite white model for a long long time basically said listen if we if we keep this up we're not going to exist in on reviews right that what it means to be an EXO nyan which is the weird name that they give one other what it means to be an EXO nyan has got to shift because they're just not gonna be enough rich white dude to keep us in business in a hundred years from now and and and so here's the deal like yeah there's a moral and ethical imperative for equity and for justice because it's been so long denied and we ought to do right by folks for that reason but if we don't a lot of y'all gonna be out of jobs you know that's just the truth I'm not going to be the only one that that you know well I guess I'll still have a job right regardless there's inequity I guess I'll get to keep running my mouth but if there's inequity for too much longer y'all won't even be in the positions that you have because you're already in a state that has increasingly you know comprised of folks of color and that's who you're going to be serving and working class people who come through the CC system so it seems to me that if we make the case as a combination case there's a moral and ethical imperative there's also a practical necessity that we learn new skills that we deepen our knowledge and if we don't do it we're not good at our jobs anymore you know you just can't keep the same approach when you've got a different set of factors a different set of constituents and a different country and a different community and so I think that there's a real practical piece not just the more well one of my concerns um Adrian in that kind of embedded in some of the conversations that people have of you know I'm a good person I'm not a racist for example I mean even before we get into the intricacies of the systemic understanding of what it means to be a racist racist from a very very kind of technical perspective when people will say but I'm a good person it's it weaves apart the fact that we live within systems of oppression so when we talk about sexism for example I will have people come to me and say well I'm going to teach my son not to be sexist and that's great it's wonderful we all hold that as people who care about the next generation that we're going to do our best to give you know to give a voice to the lives that that misogyny kind of socializes us to believe and so then we start thinking of it as a moral thing I'm going to teach my son's not to believe the lies of misogyny teaches us I'm going to believe I'm going to teach my daughter's I'm going to teach my genderqueer kids to not even think about gender identity in those same ways and that's going to be enough because if I'm good enough I'm moral enough I'm whatever enough they're not going to take care of the system the reality is that we are all embedded I mean the critical theorists would say we are so embedded in these strong systems that systemic ly keep us in these patterns of the Leafs and the assign rank and power and agency and target status that we have to do both and at the same time and I remember back when I was a college student and spending a couple days in workshop with Darrell - who was a younger professional at the time and he would say that we of course want people to be motivated by the social justice imperative and if not the demographic realities are going to make it impossible for them not to face these dynamics and so again I would resonate with what Timnath saying of course we want this to be the moral imperative and the duality is that the systems have to support the outcomes as well on it thank you um this isn't specifically about education it's a buttock but I thought I'd toss it out in a do comment you mentioned the the guy in Starbucks - I'm not getting waited on fast enough and the other example and so I run across people online and I have I have friends and relatives who voted to the current president and men and have the attitude of we're not being listened to we're being oppressed and that that leads me like 'fl know and I've but I don't know how to deal with them so yeah how do what's a good way to deal with them does I get back Wow well there's so many sarcastic answers but then I paying me for the snark so I'll call uh I'll try to give you a real move you know I think the struggle and it is a struggle for me personally is to try to remember that folks with whom I have even the most profound differences have come to where they are for reasons that are perhaps I can't completely understand but I'm sure I've come to where I am for reasons they can we all have a lens that we've adopted about these issues we're talking about today and about politics and none of our lenses are truly objective you know so it's really easy for those of us who did not vote for instance for the current president to go oh cannot believe but it's equally easy for them to go oh my god I can't believe you don't see what I see well the question is did we really I mean those of us who didn't vote for this president didn't be real I mean are we so objective such perfect arbiters of truth that we've really read everything there is to read we know everything there is no of course not and neither today part of building community around these issues that we've been discussing or any other is being willing to acknowledge that we're all shaped by a number of social forces and so part of it is having the humility to do that and it can be tough I mean when I when I started doing this work I just graduated from college in 1990 and those of you who read white like me know the story I was in the work against David Duke who was running for the United States Senate and then governor at that time so here we have this overt white supremacist lifelong really sense of teenage years neo-nazi former Klan leader who comes very close to winning and he comes very close to winning because he gets 60 percent 6-0 percent of the white vote and black cloaks luckily saved this from ourselves and so we didn't end up with a Nazi for Senator or for governor but when all that was over with myself and all of us who were involved in at campaign I did sit around and say you know what really separates us from those 620,000 white people that thought it was a good idea to vote for a Nazi because I knew that we didn't have 620,000 Nazis in movies I knew that right I'm Jewish I got a really well tuned Nazi detective like I got reasons I know I pay attention right so six hundred twenty thousand Nazis know my god of course not some of them maybe but most of them were just scared little people just like all of us are sometimes we're scared little people imperfect flawed people who get moved around the chessboard by forces that we don't even often discern and the only thing that really separated me from them I had that I had to try on a little humility right because it would have been so easy to go oh my god how do you how do you vote for a Nazi hell's wrong with you but the only reason that I knew better well a I'm Jewish so here is that you generally know not to vote for the not senator Jews it's like it comes with the territory but but but the only reason I'm Jewish because I was raised Jewish right which is just happenstance that I was born into a family where my dad was Jewish and that's how I was raised the only other stuff that separated me from them was that I had a set of experiences that were different right I've gone to preschool with a historically black college I went schools that were 4045 percent african-american I was in sort of multiracial teens and institutions my whole life I had parented were very intentional about certain things well it's not like I earned those parents it's not like I did anything to deserve that life I just I was lucky to have it so then I had a very different perspective they had a very different experience which gave them a different perspective the minute that I stopped being smug about mine I could I could at least hear them treat them like humans listen to what their fears are and then have a real conversation about whether they're properly diagnosing therefore you see we all yell misdiagnosed stuff from time to time do I think that Trump supporters have horribly misdiagnosed the pain that millions of them are actually in yes but you know what I once misdiagnosed a pain on my side as cancer because I decided to google it right and and that was no more intelligent really in my estimation than what somebody who votes for for someone I can't relate to did we all get stuff wrong you know I'll stand out I get a pain I'm like oh what's that you know don't consult dr. Google it's a terrible idea but I did it and I was like I know I've got a horrible problem now I hold them up no big deal and I would say maybe they've misdiagnosed ear pain they would say I've missed diagnose other stuff cool that's fine but we can have that conversation if we understand that we all sort of come to where we end up because of a number of forces that are not objective there's actually some research that says some of its biological right which is frightening to think that maybe to some extent our politics might be embedded in this and that doesn't mean they can't change but it means that we got to start with the realization that none of us are objective none of us see things exactly clearly none of us have read all the work there is greed looked at all the data there is to look at and so I think one of the ways we can start to deal with focusing politically maybe you're on the other side of us and ideologically used to have a conversation tell me why you think what you think don't tell me what you think tell me why you think that's a really different conversation because anybody can tell you what they think right we're really good at that as a culture well I think this well I think this tell me why do you think I'll tell you why I think what I think about rezident that's what my entire book is about is telling me this is my life this is how I came to see this doesn't mean that it's objective truth for everyone I'm just telling you my story and you're free to accept it reject it take some and leave the rest I want to know about you tell me why you believe that the guy's the guy in Starbucks tell me why you think that's oppression I really want to know right tell me why do you think that getting slow services because you're a white guy and she's black and you were a trump supporter which she wouldn't have even known until you said it right you explained it to me because what I've learned is a lot of times and you ask people to explain why they think stuff they can't and that's when they start to perhaps rethink the stuff that they think because they can't really articulate the why behind what they think I found myself doing that sometimes on other subjects than this you know where I haven't spent a lot of time studying somebody why do you think that I'll try to answer it I'm like that's pretty stupid that answer wasn't real strong it one of the things I think is hard for folks is that we live in a culture that really dichotomize --is things things are good or bad right or wrong and the reality is that we live lives where there can be competing rights that happen at the same time and I for four years I was co-chair of Washington State's faculty and staff of color conference and in Washington State the faculty and staff of color conference was an opportunity for a lot of professionals who spent a lot of time not breathing on their campuses gave them a chance to exhale in a sense of community that was profound and people waited for it yes that sense and you can imagine of being with people where you can just not have to explain and interpret and be in service of and that expectation that too often people of color are expected to be the ones who facilitate others learning or to do the work so here's an opportunity that people just look forward to for a long time and in the planning there were lots of things that went wrong and we were just in this very tired place and there was a small group of very very very powerful women maybe not positionally powerful but spiritually and and intellectually and just in terms their presence powerful women and one of the facilities guys from the campus that hosted that year's conference came and he says very earnestly I've been waiting for you this group of colored people to come what are you doing here you can imagine their responses and they looked at me and they said oh you're the chair deal with this and they left because they were so tired well it was very very clear to this man that he had said something that he really should not have said but he didn't understand it because he had read it not as the faculty and staff of color conference it was okay so that means that this is a group of colored people he didn't understand the very tortured history and tradition that was assigned to those words in that language and all of the different pieces of trauma that were embedded in using those particular words at those particular time and so if you think about it who was right and who was wrong and unfortunately becomes this clash right so then you know so I was a person who was charged with having that conversation and he said I clearly have said something terrible helped me understand that there's a very very legitimate reason why sometimes you just don't want to have to be that person in every time to be subject to other people's learning because as as a person from a marginalized group is it always my responsibility to be there to facilitate others learning so I can see that there was a write in terms of these women who were over time at this point but that didn't make that man wrong and it turns out that his motivations were really legitimate he truly had come because as a facilities person he wanted to support the success of the conference so he came with a good and willing heart and he didn't have the understanding or the use of language that it took to be graceful in his process so then what is it in our response is graceful like what tools and skills and commitments and agreements and social contracting does it take for us to be graceful in those I mean and then the complexity is then when are those one of the times we say you know what this is not my conversation to facilitate so again as you know you Tim said there aren't there isn't a great list of do this every time it is recognizing the complexities of how we as human beings interact and so I often will think what is the function of this communication if the function of this communication is to use me as a target for your frustration that we're now at this place in our communities that you don't like and you're frustrated that people like me are having more voice in agency so you think that I'm not powerful and not in my presence to combat you I'm not going to give you the same response because I don't owe you that response in the same way as if I'm in a professional capacity or if I'm in a space where I can recognize that you as a human being are in a very vulnerable moment because you don't know how to convey the truth that your heart is asking you to convey so what's the function of the communication at that point and then what skills and tolerance are you bringing to the situation at the time too so that's - one oh those look questions Arthur you want to come up to the where we are here and talk a little bit about this great yeah we would love to hear people's responses from your conversations we saw some really great engagement with some folks be willing to come and share some of the highlights from your conversations and we're glad that people that you know we have some of that up on here because you've typed it in but we'd love to hear it in your voice what some of these things mean to you and a group of people that you were speaking with if you want to flesh them out a little bit more rather than just having us all turn and read the page if you want to share them publicly that would be great yes thank you okay my name is April Henderson and I work with LPS and here at Foothill and our group we had a really nice conversation or active conversation and some of the commitments that we made were started from just being aware self-aware of the current state of where our students are and kind of off of our group is I think my personal beliefs is not just being self aware of where our students are and the state of affairs in the country in the world but also being aware where we are as a staff and community because a lot of these initiatives especially as we're talking about equity now my experience within this enlightenment for lack of a better word is that when we when we as we receive money from the state to pour into these issues we are we are given a limited amount of time to do the work and it's it's very hard to do the work in a certain amount of time and then when it doesn't work you have you know it wasn't going to work in the first place and I've been here long enough to know if we've done this before and then there's no sustainability and we're very vulnerable when we throw things at program money at program if we don't believe in them as an institution and I and I don't mean that just with Foothill I mean that statewide so anyway my commitment in my program was to be aware of you know all the things that are happening that affect our students we also had a commitment to creating mechanisms to bring student voice in the room I think someone also mentioned earlier we and I've been and the person who brought this up we've been in a number of meetings and we don't have a student voice and we need to figure out how we can get them in on conversation so we can get perspective part of being aware is to be aware of the state of our students and right now one of the most concerning issues is homelessness food insecurities we're talking about this throughout the state of California we need to know and I'm sure there are staff members in our community that have no idea I just happen to work with a group of students that I talked to every day and these are some of their number one concerns let alone trying to pass a class with an instructor as you mentioned who doesn't have any concern of what they're going through I'm forgive me I'm so passionate I'm kind of all over the place okay okay another of our group members talked about having those uncomfortable conversations and not being afraid to have them I'm always just in my experience I'm always thinking okay how do you have this conversation with someone without a you know you don't want to I mean we are in all truth this is our job this is our livelihood and how do you have that conversation with an administrator for instance someone who holds your position you know can make your position very uncomfortable but this person in our group said hey we can't be afraid to have those conversations we need to figure out how we can and I'm kind of paraphrasing I'm sorry we need to be okay with that and as an institution as ILDA mentioned if we stick to our mission and we have these conversations through the lens of our mission that's our you know that's our document you know that that's your argument also and finally just talking to people you don't usually talk to on campus you know stepping out of your own own little cubicle if you will I know I through my experience I know there's people on campus that don't come out of the cubicle other than to take their break than to take their lunch you know and they come and go and these are the the staff people and faculty people who are serving the ever-changing diversity of our students without even questioning their own personal biases and the changing dynamic of this affluent area of the Silicon Valley is that this you know two two versions of the Silicon Valley there's extreme poverty and then there's extreme affluence without any concern because this is just the job to get through so I applaud those who want to reach out and just kind of start those conversations it is very difficult we but I think we all need to make that commitment because as you mentioned if we don't this you might as well if you're worried about your job you know it's not going to be here we don't keep our enrollment up keep our retention up and these are the students that we serve and I think I covered everything I apologize nice job thank you I have two questions that came from De Anza one being as a white instructor how do I let my Latino little come back here it's just we can see if I can got it Latino and african-american students know that I don't think they represent their entire ethnic group that was one question another one is what does the revolution look like feel like and taste like I don't know that there's any foolproof way that a that a white person can convey that to people of color concretely in a very short time I think that's something that gets conveyed by relationship building right I think that when you build relationships with students across lines of difference they get to know you and you get to know them and then they get to sense what you really think about no one coming in is you know it's bottom line the first time that you're interacting with somebody you got air all that baggage comes in the room with you so if your experience with Dominic group educators hasn't been a positive one that's going to be where you're starting and and and that's not the fault of that next educator but we just have to be aware so I think it's about relationship building but there is one thing I think we can do and I'm not saying it's foolproof but I know that I've seen it work and I've counseled people to do it before in one form or another several years ago a woman who I grew up with as kids graduated high school with she was 40 and we hadn't talked to each other in years hits me up on Facebook says I'm starting a new career as a teacher she just got her teaching certification in New York City she was going to teach in the New York Public Schools where she'd been living for some years had never taught before but got her sir at Hunter College and was going to be turned loose in the NY New York public school so she says to me given what you do Tim you know what do I need to know this is a is a white woman from the south southern accent blond hair blue eyes former cheerleader I'm not saying any of this could be negative or hostile on any of those categories I'm just trying to set a visual for you for what is going to come and I said well before I can tell you what I think you need to know I need to know where you're going to be teaching and she said well I'm going to be in the South Bronx and I said really I know how much y'all know about the South Bronx I said what neighborhood in the South Bronx please she says Mott Haven yeah see a couple y'all know Mott Haven is the poorest neighborhood in the South Bronx it's the second poorest community in the United States after Pine Ridge Reservation median household income in Mott Haven as of the early 2000s about seventy five hundred a year per household income and they're gonna turn this white woman who's never taught before loose in Mott Haven on eighth graders now eighth grade is about the worst time to be alive it's between Matt and seven worst time to be on the planet let alone if you're in a marginalized space economically and racially marginalized which might even certainly is and now this nice white lady is going to roll up like Michelle Pfeiffer in that movie dangerous mind and it's supposed to help you and I say I said this is all I got for you I said honestly first get a transit map cause I know you haven't been up there yet that's number one someone make sure you get where you're going number two is I think you need to go in and and convey that you see what they see when they look right you need to let them know that you know how ridiculous it is that they have sent you up there to be the quote-unquote Savior because that's what every one of them is going to think I said I honest-to-god Christmas is what I would do I'd go in the first day I'd go to the chalkboard put my name on the board turn around and go I know that's what is what I told her it's as if you should just say like this is some real and because ever and then they'll laugh because every one of them is going to they're already thinking it they just need to know that you see the absurdity and then I said here's the next question what do you think it means that they sent me a totally inexperienced teacher just started out to teach you what does it say about how this system views you and what does it say about how they view me because because what it says about how they real is that they don't care if you learn because if they really cared they'd send the most experienced teacher in there to teach you and they don't care whether I quit because if y'all decide to run me out cuz you know why he'll get some other sucker from Hunter College to take your spot now I'm not saying that exact same conversation has to happen in a community college context although nothing works better than I know this is some I will tell you it's very very effective phrase but but the real point is in your own way try to convey that you know you don't have all the answers right that was really what I was trying to say to her yeah she's the she's the content specialist who's going to teach English or whatever it was but they've got wisdom and and you need to be listed there wisdom that's the job of the educator and the only way the only way to do that is by admitting you don't know some stuff including the lives that they lead and I think if you conveyed out because I told my friend I said look you're going to try that and it's going to get you somewhere but you're still going to have trouble because come on first of all their eighth graders they're going to give you a hard time all throughout the year that's the only power they got right it's just sort of mess with you a little bit that's it but and so you're going to have no matter how hard you try you're going to have folks for whom it's just not going to click right away or in a short period but I guarantee you keep coming back to that idea of weird Kohler nurs here I'm not just I'm not doing what Brazilian educator Carlos lady called banking model of Education where I'm just something you know where I'm making deposits into your brain and then I'm going to make a withdrawal when it's test time that's a banking model that's not a liberation model of Education and so I think that's one way that a white educator can send that message is by being humble enough to admit all the stuff they don't know and at the time I think that can I add to that there's also the critical and self-conscious reflection on how do you know what you think you know and and so often people will say so so my group we do consulting for higher education institutions and for clinicians for health care folks and so we'll say so what you think you know how did you get there whose voice is informed what you think you know and and how do you know what you think you know is right and then the other thing is that your proficiencies aren't static your equity competencies aren't like absorbed through the air and it's not an issue of morality if you do not know how to be clinically appropriate and culturally responsive it's not because you're a horrible human being it's because there are merit based and knowledge base and skill based competencies and you go seek those and you build your capacity in the same way that you would learn a language you don't say I don't know how to speak Spanish and so I must be a horrific human being you say huh how do people learn this they go out and they seek education they seek exposure they experiment they talk to other people who know they go and they're humble enough to admit what they don't know and so one of the things that we say to faculty members all the time is build your skills build your skills build your skills build your skills and then as as a campus community what are the opportunities you're providing to folks to build their skills thank you I just want to say thank you to everybody for being here it's really nice to see so many people want a beautiful Friday here sharing and it's being part of this conversation I just wanted to respond to the last comment as well that this means to have a kind of coordinated I guess beloved community right this kind of community where we have folks that are dealing with students at all different aspects of the college structure and really kind of putting forth an equitable attitude towards the students and the faculty and the staff really to me is a foundational part of what we're trying to do now working as a sociology instructor in the classroom I really I guess I took a different approach in the beginning which was to really put forth a space to express that anger that we feel right at equal of color as women as queer folks and I felt like it didn't really have the same result that I wanted and what I started doing is putting forth the kind of beloved community building first right in the first two weeks of class and I feel like that kind of builds the space for I guess working through that trauma right the trauma is where we can get into the real heart of the matter right not so much the anger part the anger part comes from the trauma right thus we have chunk builders right does that make sense right so the hurt is where it's at so when you build a space where people can express their hurt in a calm environment I think that's kind of where we can start building on this critical consciousness around race and having that conversation because we never get there if you start with the anger thank you and I would if I could to say something real quick to that I think it's also really important to give people the opportunity to reflect on what it takes to them to get into that room right I mean what did it take what does it take every day for them to be there right because now we're not only talking about their heard and their anger which is huge and we need to process and give space for we're also tapping into their resilience that gets them out of bed and gets them to come in spite of all that in spite of all their hurt and anger still puts their butt in that chair to have whatever conversation about whatever subject it is because they're committed to education they need to also be thinking about that because that that's a skill set that resilience is a is a skill set and some people all across the economic and racial spectrum sorely lacking and other people have it in abundance and I want those students to feel not only that they have been certainly harmed by the system they need to know that and that they have every right to be angry at the system they need to know that but that they also have some skills that don't get recognized enough in this society and one of them is that they don't give up in the face of that and they refuse to die and that's an important thing that they need to be able to tap into the slack and it feels long about I just want to see one last thing we are having an event on May 5th and I want to invite everybody here who's interested in this topic because it's it's an opportunity for students to we're actually going to have a panel of students called student voices and it's happening on May 5th singledom aisle it's going to happen from 1:30 till 4:30 and we're going to have a panel of about 6 to 8 students and they're going to be answering questions about their struggle exactly what you're just talking about right what does it take for them to get to school and to do well but also what can we do right as a staff it's faculty to make that process better and it's a both way thing they're going to see what's sincerely what they think and we're going to say sincerely what we think and then we can start to reach some conclusion so this is kind of a an event where we're going to kind of show it how it's done and kind of see if we can reproduce it throughout the campus go invite everybody CHC California history building over at DeAnza thank you so I resonate so much with the empathy and care that is resonating from what you're saying about your work with students and for the one the the one challenge and pushback that I would present and with really a great amount of respect is that it's the challenge to renegotiate our relationship with anger because in in the u.s. and culture were not so great as disconnecting anger with violence and disconnecting anger with destruction and so then we start talking about strategies to not be angry and with a lot of the conditions that people are experiencing it would kind of be crazy not to be angry it's been when students or we experience anger and we don't know how to transform anger into more productive actions that then we have to pay the price for then we then it's not useful to us and it doesn't service so but my only the main motivation I have for for just challenging that language and again I say it because I'm really confident that I'm resonating with the heart of what you're saying and have great respect for what you're saying sometimes it slipped to the folks who are experiencing the anger and so there's an expectation that will behave if we're angry and that why are you coming as and you know why are you being the angry fill-in-the-blank again and and so again what's the function of that and so I just really encourage us to consider if maybe the challenge when we're working with folks who are really angry maybe the challenge is being able to create an environment where we can hold the anger and then say how do you process through it and transform it into something that's useful for you rather than something that you are going to then have to pay the cost for and that's a really that that's a pretty sophisticated conversation it's something that has helped me in my work with students and I work with clinicians as well I was talking with Tim last night about a conversation with a clinician who was saying you know my goal is to help this young black man in the community in Portland not be angry I'm like you're not going to be able to do successful clinical work with this person if you're asking him to negotiate his relationship with anger through your fear of anger because his live experience makes it really really rational for him to be angry at this point so how do you help him develop skills and strategies to transform that into an action that then doesn't become part of his permanent educational record doesn't become this treatment diagnosis that doesn't follow him around forever I mean so how do you disconnect that with violence and destruction in his life that's a different challenge oh hi oh wait I was going to contribute something differently okay um hi I'm Amy sue Zahra I'm a faculty in at Danza English language art just to kind of go back to a little bit of what we talked about in our group the first thing that seemed to resonate among my group was around the word discomfort or the question that was posed about feeling comfortable to deal with these issues and we seem to have a resounding sense around that it's not just about comfort or discomfort but often about safety and so we were kind of talking about what that means you know in situations in which we might feel we're separated or siloed among depending on who we are what our experiences have been and so that was one thing to name is around safety and that then having the dialogue that need to happen among faculty but then now I'm to add among faculty and students that provide enough room to deal with the consequences of breaking through silos or breaking through speaking things that maybe haven't been spoken so that was one and then now I'm going to elaborate a little bit on on my own comment that I put up there which is related to that it's sort of what's come up come up comes up for me a lot as an educator who's been in classrooms for a long time but only now at DeAnza seeing sort of well I've taught it a couple districts where I didn't see my own face in the classroom and this is one of those rare and powerful opportunities where I do and in fact what happens is I think especially with the with the election season that happened and I was very new to the campus you know my embodied miss as an educator myself as a woman of color who was an immigrant of an immigrant family and sort of you know having to sort of struggle with how do I be in leadership while I'm also going through my own triggers and own like perhaps similar things that a lot of the students are having so I think part of my commitment was you know engaging in those dialogues despite discomfort how how we as and we all know that women of color educators a lot of times face different challenges then than others and that a lot of times we have to deal with the burden of representation I've had to deal with that in many places I've taught where I often feel like you know the material I'm teaching is seen as oh that's your bone to pick that's your issue and if the students have some skepticism but now how can i channel sort of the empathy I might be feeling with my students and into you know collective empowerment creating that beloved community creating collective learning and finding that balance of being humbled but also holding the space and being empowered myself so part of my commitment was sort of like continue to have that I would say bravery and courage in the classroom but also among my faculty among you know engage in dialogues and and bringing back to full circle to what my group was feeling was was seeking out and encouraging those dialogues where we can perhaps take our hats off or our roles and really you know take risks and engaging and listening to one another [Applause] I think that last part minutes all important what you said but that last part about having an opportunity to take off that hat as an educator which is to say really as a content specialist in whatever it is you teach it you know you teach something you teach it because you're a content specialist you have a certain specialized knowledge and so there's expertise there and that's great but just like you don't know everything there is to know about your subject even though you teach it and that's why you do continuing education and that's why you continue to read things in your field over there's definitely stuff outside of your immediate field that you don't know and I think part of conveying and Billiton banks building relationships and community amongst each other within certain job complex or building community with students and the larger sense of the community is about conveying that dual reality of yes I've got some specialized skills but as much as I know there's a lot of other stuff I don't know and need to learn about myself and about the things that cause me pain and trigger me and and trigger certain emotional reactions in me and I need to know that in order to be able to work with you because if I don't know what gets me going and gets me uptight and gets me scared and gets me off my game because we all have those days that has educators in that broad sense when we're not on our game you know when we just sort of like come in and we just weren't we don't think we conveyed what we wanted to convey to the students or I give a talk and I don't feel like I conveyed what I want and it could be because I don't get enough sleep or eight something they you know gave me indigestion or whatever it is I got to be humble enough to sort of own that and so I think the more that we can drop that veil of objectivity with each other and acknowledge our own inadequacies even as people who have a real vested interest don't we as professionals in saying I know my stuff by god I know what I'm doing none of us wants to admit that there's some things that maybe we don't know how to do you don't want to give up that control you don't want to give it up in the classroom seems chaotic you don't want to give up give it up with other faculty because we're in a society that likes to compare us to each other so like if I admit my weakness and you won't oh my god what have I just done I've just I've just made myself vulnerable well you have to be willing to make yourself vulnerable if you're going to learn and and and because learning is about acknowledging there's things you don't know so and so if you're not willing to be vulnerable then you're not willing to learn then you're not willing to grow then you can't help others grow and this is sort of basic human development stuff but really really important so I think to create those spaces and I don't like to term safe just because to me I don't think there's no such thing as a fully safe space in a society of inequality right in a society of racial inequity of white supremacy frankly I don't think people of color ever fully safe until that system is gone in a system of patriarchy I don't think women are ever fully safe until that system is gone in a system of straight supremacy and cisgender supremacy I don't think LGBTQ folks are ever safe until that system is gone can we make it safer yeah but I'm primarily concerned about making it equitable and if making it equitable and just requires and discomfort and and some emotional unsafety in the sense that I got a really struggle physical safety is assumed like we were talking yesterday I said I've done this for almost a quarter-century no-one's ever brought a knife to the workshop you know no one's ever pulled a weapon and threatened to hurt anyone in the workshop so we we're going to assume physical safety to have these conversations I'm not sure that we should assume complete emotional I think we should be prepared to be vulnerable because sort of goes back to something someone else said if if we're not willing to be brave and courageous because we're afraid what it's going to do to us professionally trust that if we're not brave and courageous there won't be a job in the long run or an institution with which to work bravery and courage are not sort of luxuries in anymore we have to we have to do them as necessities thank you we've come to the end of our conversation this morning it feels like a really productive conversation and thank you for your earnest engagement Tim you'll be available for for a book signing and that's just right outside and um is there anything else you'd like to say Pat and in closing thank you [Applause] [Music] habelts dissertation drunken noodles Rochester Institute of Technology.