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Michigan state university phd dissertations do my capstone cchp need someone to make my research proposal on religious studies please over for an introduction and then I'll speak for a few minutes to Philippe the court from un-habitat and I'll just say before I hand off we're really delighted at the urban law center for the partnership we have with un-habitat and particularly with the urban legislation unit based in Nairobi and long closed when he became the head of un habitat had great experience in Barcelona in in urban governance working with lawyers and I think he more than anyone has appreciated the role of law and the importance of getting law right to the entire agenda and the entire mission of un habitat and and we're delighted to be a part of that so with that let me hand it over and thank you again thank you welcome everybody welcome to the United Nations and extremely happy for this second edition and I would say I this second edition is in a way drastically different than the first one because we have a new urban agenda we have this global commitment and we were just talking before this meeting if you read it as a lawyer there is so much exciting stuff in there but it's also so much call for action and called for work to be done by this community and I think that's that's something I briefly wanted to talk about and that's why this day is ten times more important that last year last about the warmup and and now you know what we need to work on now it's clear what are the challenges that are that Member States committed to and this is the key parties are member states committing to a global agenda which I would argue but you can qualify it much better than I gives urban law a much more prominence role and space in delivering on this broader idea or the global idea of urbanization and good organization and making sure that good urbanization is the the entry point and D way to deliver on sustainable developments and so as you have it that we try to really articulate here in New York this the fact that the sustainable development goals is the overarching agenda and that's what everybody talks about the new urban agenda is much more about the watts and it's key that that we may get linked as we engage to build support for what we are trying to do but if you do a or doctor or executive director talks about it good urbanization does not happen by chance but rather by design and it requires three fundamental things that need to be connected supportive rules and regulations sound planning a design and a viable financial plan and I think throughout the work we are trying to do inhabitant or engagement with communities like yours it's also be very clear that rules and regulations do not stand by themselves there are necessary and fundamental to help deliver on the overall picture and they're integrated and that link and I hope you will be able to discuss today those linkages a bit more in in detail we are going to step further and the document should be online about now we've come up with a action framework for implementation of the urban agenda basically saying of course the urban agenda is a is a consensus document by governance but if you now you you go to a city or go to national government so what what we expect us to do and so that action framework for implementation you imagine so elements to put in place to make it happen and their five key areas natural urban policies urban planning and design urban economy and municipal finance and then urban legislation rules and regulations with nine key elements I don't have them in front of me in detail but I'll make sure you get some copies if you haven't seen it yet but those are what we consider put forward as you know habited as the fundamental elements to make this work and the last one of course is local implementation how to really work with this at the at the local level now why is rooted regulations from our perspective so prominent in in this agenda because we know it's fundamental if we want to ensure that we can secure public space and equity and access for all to this kind of public spaces and we know we're in New York public space exists but the true nature of public space is always an issue and so ensuring that public space is truly public clearly the legal framework so out there we know our outdated are very old and it's very hard to kind of renew them and and bring them up to speed but even I would say in progressive countries where is a very well-established system of rules regulations web and law the new urban agenda is an opportunity to kind of look at them afresh do they really help to deliver on these ideas fundamental ideas again the ideas of inclusiveness which are extremely important your current environments the idea of of equity and so on so we know very well Dickey framers are required to implement plans and policies and so what is that direct link can we strengthen it we also know that without adequate legal frameworks cities face multiple risks and some which I would argue are often are not well understood or or not that connection is is not necessarily made and one of them to to to point out which is one of the biggest challenges is uncontrolled urban sprawl definition of urban land to begin with and just to not to scare you but the argument that the numbers use that in the next decades we will build as much City as we really have today that's the need for urbanization and that's going to be uncontrolled urban sprawl if we don't plan but specifically ill so if we don't have in place the proper rules and regulations to our to guide that and I would argued in a lot of context that in that framework that infrastructure is not in place or certainly not effective and and available and that's a challenge because that's a reality not for people sitting in New York or elsewhere but it's very much a reality for developing countries mainly in sub-saharan Africa where we know legal frameworks and infrastructure to deliver on it is it's probably the weakest than the weakest capacity in terms of governance to guide and implement those laws so that challenge is done specifically acute in those kind of environments now just to end let me just I think also we we would like to make the case that if we say look if you want herb in law to be effective it's making sure that has this capacity to mediate and balance competing interests again the public-private we would argue that in the last decades urbanization has too often been handed over to the private sector to deliver while now and the numeral agenda is calling on it for public authority to kind of reclaim some of that ground to ensure that some of these values and principles are actually put in place so that's I think that capacity of law not to say this is the law just follow it but also law as as a as a as a tool to to mediate between interests and how that can play out in in practice and the second point and again it relates to we believe a new modality for for the way urbanization can can be improved can be managed and implemented we're no longer talking about one of projects and we've seen a lot of developments where a developer comes in and does everything but we say urbanization is about defining urban lands putting in place the plotting going down to the level of plotting in terms of the scale of the the texture of urbanization public space private space and build ability of those plots and that's a whole different set of rules regulations that need to be in place and effective to allow urbanization just to happen in a guided and controlled manner lastly and again I am speaking to the converted but are to be to be functional and effective we do know it has to be realistic and locally relevance and maybe it's clear that the talking at a global level let's keep it in mind that it has to be contextualized and that's we have to we have seen too many practices where laws were copied from one place to the other without exactly than mean of course the the impact it's it should be having and I want to point it out that complex element were in particularly the new urban agenda exactly it's very clear I think it's even up front in one of the first paragraphs that the new urban agenda is to be implemented including with special attention to conflicts in crisis and countries in conflicts post-conflict are affected by man-made and natural disasters and those are a whole different set of conditions multiple systems in place from the legal perspective specifically around land land use and what does it mean and how do we make sure that we also think it through in those countries again because those are the places where urbanization is going too fast those are the places where we have displacements migration refugees that are often not taken into account in in legal frameworks so making sure that we also space specific attention to countries in those kind of situations and I'll end it there thank you thank you so much and an inspiring way to begin the day um I want to just take two or three minutes and try and set the context for the two panels we'll have today and again thank you all for being here on urban law day is an initiative of un habitat um and and it has fostered a series of conversations around the world this is our second here in New York but they've been in London in Africa in other places and it's really an opportunity for us to bring some perspective and some expertise hopefully to help inform the UN on to help us help our partners think through this critical moment the new urban agenda was adopted in October in Quito and and the world is embracing it but law plays an incredibly important role and I just want to pick up on on on on two themes and how we think about law and it'll help you understand the two panels we have this morning so law if you read through the new urban agenda is foreground throughout if you read it through a lawyers eyes you see law fairly explicitly in a number of places when it comes to building the urban governance structure paragraphs eight five through 92 I'm at the UN so I'm going to try and use some vocabulary no acronyms yet but we'll get there but but it's really striking how much law is foregrounded in terms of the infrastructure in terms of governance in terms of Units will finance on in terms of transparency and anti-corruption and so our first panel is going to in many ways talk about those first order legal infrastructure questions and I hope we'll be able to have a good dialogue about not just what are the right substantive policies what are the right legal structures but also how we measure them how we understand one of the things that's very I think beneficial about having the new urban agenda is it moves us towards benchmarks it moves us towards the conversation about quality of law about where law fits in that's a very hard conversation and it's not so easy and obvious to see how we think about those kinds of measurement tools but I think it's absolutely critical but I think law also plays an important role in the background in a second-order way in so many other aspects of the new urban agenda whether it's sustainability whether it's resilience whether it's the role of migrants or the most vulnerable in cities and our second panel is actually going to look at data so data plays a role throughout so many of the substantive goals of the new urban agenda and data plays a role in how the UN its nation-states its member states and its partners are going to evaluate how the new urban agenda has actually been implemented and law of course is critical we have to think about privacy about data protection about where law actually can structure the use of information and our second panel is really going to take up that challenge of some of those really critical second border legal questions as we think about data and law in the new urban Genda so I'm really excited and I encourage us all we have phenomenal panelists will introduce them as we do our to panel on but there's a lot of expertise in this room so I encourage a very active dialogue and again I thank our partners with the UN and with that let me hand it off to Professor Sheila Foster okay I'm going great thank you for that introduction professor Davidson and my name is Sheila Foster and I'm the co-director of the urban law Center at Fordham with Professor Davidson and this is the second year that we've hosted urban law day and this year as we've just heard it perhaps matters more because of the new urban agenda and Professor Davidson has opened up the conference with a broad overview of the of the panels and right now I just want to take a moment to introduce our guests who we are quite honored to have here first professor Gillette who is a professor at New York University he's also taught at Virginia and Boston University for those of us in in legal academia we know him as kind of the god of municipal finance and local government law his scholarship is a broad ranging but it mostly focuses on local government law in particular the questions of debt and also commercial credit into instruments and he's written a number of case books as well as articles that have to do with long term commercial contracts initiatives relations between localities in their neighbors privatization of local services and how courts look at all of these topics in particular with regard to homeowners associations he's also served as the reporter for the American Bar Association intersectional Task Force on initiatives in referenda and has been a consultant on litigation and on issues of municipal debt in particular I think you worked in Detroit right Michigan Rose Gill Hearn is equally accomplished she served from 2002 to 2013 as the Commissioner of the New York City Department of Investigation she was the longest-serving commissioner in it 140 year history in 2013 she created the Center for advancement of Public Integrity at Columbia Law School which focuses on accountability in government and she chairs its advisory board prior to her appointment at the DOI Rose was a federal prosecutor for ten years at the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York where she served as the deputy chief of the Criminal Division in the chief of the crime control strategies unit she's also taught in is an alum of the Fordham University School of Law and serves as an adjunct professor she's offered I'm sorry authored a number of articles in this field and was the recipient in 2014 of the New York City conflict-of-interest board's ethics and government award as well as the 2015 recipient of the Lumbergh bulbs awarded by the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York and she's also I should say on the board of directors of transparency international USA so as you see we have deep expertise here on the panel broadly speaking on governance but more specifically on questions of accountability and corruption so with that I will turn it over have you guys decided who's going to speak first so I will turn over to Professor Jillette first great I hit that not on everyone hear me okay thanks for that more than kind introduction thanks to the UN Hale in habitat into the Fordham urban one Center to give r2 and Nestor for inviting me here it's a pleasure to be in front of you I've been asked to comment on the political economy of the new urban agenda that is to examine the political forces that might either advance to retard its implementation let me begin by saying that I read the nua as an aspirational document more than as a refined blueprint for the creation of an urban environment that might seem dismissive of a document that fills 32 single-spaced pages so let me explain my position the anyway can outlines a variety of objectives a few of which are open to disagreement by reasonable people who have the oil would be against sustainable and inclusive urban economies or ending poverty in all its forms and dimensions or achieving the full realization of the right to adequate housing is a component of the right to an adequate standard of living without discrimination those I think we all vote for those the the problem with this litany of what the anywayyyy refers with increasing specificity to as a vision or as principles or as commitments is that it can be inherently contradictory it often appears to assume a world in which sustainability and other objectives can be achieved costlessly take what the nua refers to as the transformative commitment to eradicate poverty as a condition of sustainable development the problem is that while the anyway describes the elimination of poverty as an indispensable requirement for sustainable development the objectives of poverty reduction and environment-friendly development may be inconsistent it's not incompatible think for example of the consequences of devoting more of the urban area to green space an objective that the anyway explicitly endorses any commitment of urban space support purposes other than Housing and Economic Development necessarily reduces the amount of space that is available for those purposes the inevitable effect of promoting sustainability is to create scarcity for and thus increase the cost of alternative land uses to the extent that additional green space which might be the hallmark of sustainable development reduces opportunities for housing the cost of housing rise those increases will disproportionately affect the relatively poor those who will as a consequence have to spend more what may become an unsustainable proportion of their income on basic housing in a manner that consists in consistency between the Admiral admirable housing objectives of paragraph 33 and the commendable environmental objectives of paragraph 37 if one doubts the relationship between going green and increasing housing costs take a side trip to Portland Oregon and see what housing prices are out there alternatively think of the lofty objectives of the nua of both providing services and their infrastructure on the one hand and socio-economic equity on the other is set forth in paragraph 34 the problem here is the commonly observed conflict between undesirable and uses that are necessary for service provision and the disproportionate impact on the very groups the poor the disadvantaged the minorities that the nua singles out for special treatment all would agree for example that appropriate waste disposal is a necessity of a healthy society the anyway embraces such a strategy in its call for mixed-use neighborhoods attentive to the need for the urban services no one however wants to live next to a waste disposal treatment site where therefore should one locate the waste disposal site poor neighborhoods tend to host a disproportionate share of undesired undesirable land uses prisons waste disposal sites sewage treatment plants why is that perhaps it's a function of the political economy of citing those land uses that is politically powerful residents who wish to avoid proximity to those land uses are able to exploit the politically powerless classes any such result could be redressed by adherents to the admonition of the anyway to pay attention attention to the needs of such disadvantaged groups but there's a more benign explanation for the same phenomenon that poor areas host a lots of locally and desirable land uses those land uses are likely to reduce land values wherever they're located that's why the wealthy saying not in my backyard from an economic perspective it might actually make sense to locate these uses where they will have the least impact on property values indeed paragraph 30 53 of the nua recognizes the need to protect land values unfortunately locating those uses where they will have the least impact on property values may mean hosting them in the areas that already have low land values because they are occupied primarily by the relatively poor so again we have this inherent conflict between the desire to promote some sort of equity but also the economic reality that maybe that locally undesirable and used to aggregate in particular areas that already disadvantaged in certain ways ensure trade offs are inevitable in the effort to attain something close to the vision of the anyway in the language of economics where Pareto optimality a situation where a change a change improves a lot of some without diminishing the outcome for anyone is impossible to receive the best we can do is achieve some kind of cows or Hicks efficiency in which the benefits accrue to those who gain from change exceed the costs of those who lose there are many ways of striking that balance however some of which are reasonable even though they lead to different distributions of costs and benefits and some of which are not because they allocate resources predicated more on political influence or invidious discrimination rather than on principles that are implicit in the nua the wealthy may have more representation than the poor groups that can easily organize will have more representation than hypothetical groups that have difficulty organizing groups that represent the majority culture within an area they have more political power than groups to represent minority cultures within that same diverse demographic area now note that I'm not talking about decisions that explicit that are explicitly corrupt and that they are motivated by explicit bribes or promises of rewards rather my concern is with the more difficult of problem that distortions can occur through normal politics even in democratic societies simply because not all potential participants in the political process can or will participate on equal footing and those who fail to participate are less likely to benefit from the decisions that are made than those who do not participate the challenge for implementing the nua therefore is less the articulation of substance of principles than the creation of decision making institutions governance structures that constrain the ability of decision makers to deviate from one of the reasonable interpretations of the interests of constituents affected by those decisions I want to focus on the remainder of my remarks on to likely sources of divergence between the interest of local officials and those of their constituents that I consider most the most likely obstacles to implementation of division and commitments of the anyway I'm going to take my examples from the United States for the simple reason that that's the area which I'm most familiar but I think that the principles of institutional design and good governance that from which I from which I'm which I'm trying to elaborate here are universal so the fact that the examples are limited to the United States does not detract from their general applicability the first of these potential obstacles involves the intertemporal conflict between the costs and benefits of current expenditures the anyway implicitly recognizes this problem insofar as it makes multiple references to the need for sustainable debt management at the local level references that recognize that crises that evolve at the local level when scarce funds may be you must be used to pay the cost of services that were incurred in a prior period rather than in a current period and therefore funds that might be needed to provide new services to current residents are already pre committed to pay the debts of prior residents debt crises frequently arise because municipal officials have borrowed funds for operating and capital expenses providing services to current residents while imposing the obligation to pay for them on future generations of residents those who will not be casting votes in the next election the current pension crisis in the United States and elsewhere is similarly seen as a consequence of officials who trade higher compensation to current municipal employees in the form of future pension benefits for electoral support since elected officials expect not to be in office when the pension do be in pension bill becomes due several decades later and those who must pay for those benefits may either be future residents or current than current residents who assign very high diskin discount rates to future payments the temporal mismatch is likely to result in costs that are well in excess of the current van that's that the future would obligations warrant the institution responds here may simply be one of legally imposed budget constraints while paragraph 139 of the Nu a recognizes the need for sustainable debt management it fails however to provide any mechanisms that ensure that kind of debt sustainability the most obvious mechanism that we use in the United States to constrain intertemporal externalities our constitutional limitations on the amount of debt that a municipality can have outstanding efforts in that direction or a common practice in the United States but I'm not overly sanguine about the extent to which those measures can be designed in an effective manner these constraints are only as useful as the willingness of officials to comply with and to enforce them perhaps in recognition of the need to circumvent those limitations when they become outdated or to become unresponsive to current capital requirements debt restrictions have essentially been eviscerated by smart investment bankers and blind bonds lawyers who have created structures that courts have been willing to place outside of the realm of constitutional that subject those limitations as a practical matter those circumvention may actually be necessary to allow financing of badly needed capital projects that would otherwise be frustrated and that may be especially necessary in capital poor and in infrastructure needy developing nations but we must at least recognize that circumvention of institutional constraints like debt restrictions removes the primary institutional check on intertemporal externalities and thus allows the financing of projects that are either superfluous or excessively costly as well as to allow the financing of efficient projects if the literature of fiscal allusion tells us anything it's that the ability of public officials to circumvent budget constraints is bounded only by the myopia of residents who fail to recognize that costs are being shifted to the future in ways that can return to haunt them when the payments become due and their property values decline because so much of the current budget is is dedicated to legacy cost in short where there is little political will to comply with the limitations on debt there has been little legal enforcement to bind officials to the restrictions to which one might think they're formally bound the anyway threatens to permit just this result because it inherently demands substantial capital expenditures of a degree that most Navy nations will be unable to afford through current income and it does can only be financed by debt the need for institutions to manage that debt may determine whether implementation of the nua is accompanied by debt crises of the type that ultimately forces local and central governments to fall off of a fiscal cliff aside from intertemporal conflict there is an alternative source of divergence in the interests of officials and residents that I want to mention poor local decision-making may arise with the function of fragmented decision structures within local governments by fragmentation I mean nothing more than a budgetary system in which for any given proposed expenditure there were multiple points of access and review before a decision is finalized the mayor has to approve the City Council has to approve the budget director has to approve the three different departments has to approve the result is that those who seek government funds may find success through any of a variety of avenues and none of the gatekeepers on those avenues have reason to be concerned about the budget as a whole representatives from a single district within a locality may be willing to support expenditures within their district regardless of the desirability of those expenditures from the perspective of the locality as a whole if a public funded Park and my district enhances my chances of reelection I will fight for it notwithstanding that from the perspective of the city as a whole it's an inefficient expenditure similarly allowing multiple veto points may frustrate useful projects to raise their costs if any of a number of multiple officials can veto a project then it may become necessary for me as an advocate over the project to reward each of those officials with a special benefit notwithstanding the effects on total cost or the appropriate design of the project make it some what inter ficient local infrastructure in the United States suffers from just this phenomenon of fact it's recounted in great detail in the literature considering the long tortuous protracted and continuing history of the decisions to rebuild the World Trade Center site that's continued and still continues sixteen years after the need for DeRose fragmentation and budgetary decision-making also means that units with budgetary authority within local governments have the capacity to distort decisions because their expenditures are made without considering the consequences of their decisions for the rest of the locality police officials Mayor may pursue one form of communication while the fire department pursues another oblivious to the concerns that the result is that police officers and the firefighters have difficulty communicating with each other and private interests the place demands on the public treasury whether they are developers public sector unions or poor bondholders have numerous avenues by which to achieve their objectives indifferent to the effects of their project on intersecting items in the overall budget ensure fragmentation means that the local Treasury takes on the characteristic of a common pool from which any group control the various groups that utilize it tend in the aggregate to over utilize it because each one recognizes the full benefit of its share of that commons but only a small portion of the cost of overuse one might conclude that the diffusion of municipal authority would have offsetting advantageous effects after all the process of checks and balances among different governmental entities lives of the foundation of democratic systems competition between executive and legislative bodies presumably precludes abuse by either one and generates better decisions just as we think that competition between products improves the quality of goods here again getting institutional design right is both important and difficult important because failure to get it right generates poor decisions and difficult because even institutions that promise to solve some of the problems of distorted decision-making can generate their own costs much of the literature about the relationship between municipal fiscal stability and municipal governments structures suggest that interbranch competition may be a really bad idea at least at the local level instead strong mayor mayor a strong mayor system dictatorial mayor's systems in which mayoral authority dominates that of the local legislature appears to be strongly correlated with and arguably causally related to fiscal stability someone from Bloomberg associates may agree with that proposition may I I'm not sure studies of the ability of cities to survive economic downturns suggested those that are most successful are governed by a strong party system dominated by a mayor who exercised his authority over the entire budget and who has the capacity through patronage and formal legal power unilaterally to dictate governmental policy city is governed by a highly pluralistic apparatus in which party discipline is absent and mayor's have little formal authority to control the demands of a large number of competing groups do less well in times of fiscal distress city governance structures that contain multiple points of decision-making each of which concentrates on a specific issue each of which is dominated by a particular influential group may be able to resist the fiscal discipline that comes with centralization similar findings emerge from the research that concludes that weak mayor systems are correlated with lower mean income growth similarly there is some work that suggests that as the size of the local legislature grows so do per capita expenditures of the municipal budget not because needs are greater but because more legislature simply means more log rolling and more log rolling means more great tendencies to translate into more projects that again while useful from an individual representatives perspective is not necessarily a net positive from the municipal perspective one might think therefore that centralized decision-making structures confer benefits but even if they appear to reduce useful competition within the city government and for scarce resources but though is a but centralization simultaneously creates a risk of political monopolies in the same frat and disenfranchisement of those with my nor reviews and those features can also lead to problematic financial effects centralized local governments friends for example can direct public expenditures to a political base even though the overall effect is to dilute the financial stability of the locality of the whole the possibility that a strong mayor morphs into an autocratic one suggests that centralization may not be a cure-all for the problems of the story of decision making a strong mayor may have the capacity to eliminate expensive projects that the majority of residents find too costly but may also eliminate projects that the majority supports but the strong mayor does not majority observes that seek to combine the strengths of centralization with checks on single person role may produce something like optimal results for example some literature suggests that a local legislature all whose members are elected citywide at-large who perform better than a local legislature whose members are elected from individual and self-interested districts but that letter which sure is itself contested by an argument that members of such a system ultimately compete with each other for reelection and thus have incentives to cater to particular interest groups that have disproportionate voting power even if those interests diverge from those of the city at large a line item veto given to the mayor may avoid the worst of the legislative excesses but it may also invite opportunities for a mayor to make demands inconsistent with the optimal allocation of scarce resources my message then is not that an ideal costless version of local government governance exists for purposes of making the kinds of trade-offs inherent and necessary for the implementation of something like the nua instead my message is that the variety of governance structure governance structures reveals that different institutional designs generate different costs and benefits moreover most of the institutions that I've suggested do range from the mildly to the deeply anti-democratic they may granted the mayor powers that board on the autocratic maybe even dictatorial they play substantial authority one branch of government typically in one person and remove that person from vulnerability to check by competing institutions they deny district representatives the capacity to fulfill the preferences of a subset of the constituents even though those might be the very groups to which the nua grants preferred consideration minorities women disadvantaged groups the poor notice also the related paradox created by strong mayoral systems the very autonomy that must be granted to a strong executive in order to centralize budget making necessarily risks exacerbating intertemporal conflict strong mayor's may suffer from a desire to invest in capital projects that stand as testimony to his or her period of rule such projects are typically funded by borrowing and that activity of course lies it's the tendency of the intertemporal problem so in conclusion my message is not to dictate a particular institutional design for successful implementation of the nua rather than my observation is only that institutional design is crucial to the implementation and its proper structure may be contingent on the cultural and political setting in which that implementation occurs implement an institutional design is neither simple nor obvious but it's a moment the anyway is I read it in those full 32 single-spaced participating single spaced pages chock-a-block with lovely incarnations of beautiful visions of a kumbaya world in which everyone does wonderfully ignores the issues that institutional design presents and by doing so reduces the likelihood that even the less aspirational elements of that document can be fully realized if the anyway is to take root the quality of the trees that it sprouts will depend on whether it's fertilized and cultivated I that's pretty good it's pretty good fertilized and cultivated with institutions capable of supporting the compromises necessary to achieve its objectives thanks for listening [Applause] great thank you so much Sheila and Nestor Davidson and Gilberto Vargas and to all of the organizers of this conference for inviting me here today it is truly an honor to be here and I applaud the work that you have been doing exploring the many complexities and possibilities that exist for creating effective urban agendas we at Bloomberg associates agree that focusing on a variety of issues through the lens of local governance is vitally important that has certainly been our experience working in New York City government and in our work as consultants with other cities around the u.s. and internationally the reality is that municipalities can have the greatest impact on the delivery of quality of life services by being the crucial for new ideas and serving as the biggest change agents and now more than ever people are looking to cities for leadership I'm told that one of the themes incorporated into your analysis has appropriately related to anti-corruption in the ways the transparency ideally should permeate every aspect of urban governance to that end I am happy to share some of the work that I and my colleagues from Bloomberg associate municipal integrity practice have done in that arena and here with me today are my colleagues Jaime Lavin and Spencer Nelson Bloomberg Associates is a philanthropic consulting firm that works exclusively with city governments in the US and around the world on a pro bono basis to tackle a wide array of municipal challenges and innovations working with our city partners our goal is simply to have a positive impact on the quality of life as many people as possible and displayed on this first slide is the list of cities that Bloomberg Associates has worked with in the past two three years former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg established Bloomberg associates in 2014 following his three-term mayor Elte with the intent of bringing together a number of commissioners and other officials from his city administration who had worked over the course of 12 years in various city departments agency heads who had steep experience that could be beneficial and transferable to other cities I had served as Sheila mentioned for 12 years as commissioner of the New York City Department of Investigation known as DOI which is New York City's anti-corruption Department and based on my work at DOI I became the principal of the municipal integrity and transparency practice at Bloomberg associates where for the past three years I have worked with almost a dozen cities in the US and abroad the other practices of Bloomberg associates include urban planning transportation social services cultural asset management communications media and digital strategies and sustainability the work that I did at DOI provided a rich context for the work that I do at Bloomberg associates just to give you some background DOI is the largest municipal anti-corruption department with citywide jurisdiction in the country DOI has oversight of all city agencies many of which are the largest in the country over the over three hundred thousand city employees all city contracts the City Council 200 boards and commissions and any city funded program it was an expansive and fascinating municipal dashboard where I saw and experienced quite a bit during my tenure at DOI from 2002 through 2013 we took a multi-pronged approach to anti-corruption that included first prevention corruption prevention through awareness and training and to that end we conducted more than 5500 corruption prevention and ethics training lectures throughout all of the city agencies next investigations many pursuant to tips and complaints that came in to our hotline for proactive reviews by our network of spectres general and to that end over 150,000 people contacted the department during those years and we made over 6700 arrests on a wide variety of corruption related charges last but certainly not least was remaining behind with city agencies to remediate corruption vulnerabilities exposed by DOI activities and to that end nearly 3,000 recommendations made by DOI were implemented across city agency bounds to address weak controls and to remediate them in order to avoid recurrence of fraud and other problematic issues now underpinning all of our anti-corruption work was the ongoing effort to identify city processes and programs that lacked transparency or were overly bureaucratic or inefficient such circumstances were usually breeding grounds for corruption and therefore we sought to do proactive work in those areas with city agency partners at Bloomberg associates we often do similar types of assessments in cities and make recommendations regarding projects that seek to identify pockets of opacity in government processes modernized and efficient service delivery increased transparency and by extension build trust and strengthen citizen engagement with city government with the very talented teams from these various cities we have worked on projects that have made tangible changes to the transparency landscape all of them involve analyses of legal issues and city regulations several examples of transparency projects that Bloomberg associates has worked on that Nestor asked me to share include and this one up on the slide now work that we've done with Mayor Mont Sarah's administration in Mexico City among the projects that we've done there include we helped them to establish the first citizen corruption hotline which is operated by an independent economist entity in city in the city the result has been over 2,800 calls made to that hotline in its first 22 months of operation those calls are categorized and as it relates to the subject matter of those calls various departments within city government are alerted to what the issues are in order to address those complaints coming in from the public this data which is displayed in this slide is incredibly important to the mayor in his ministers as they came out Angele see through this lens where some of the issues are and where the prevalence of issues are so that additional resources can be deployed accordingly also working with Mexico City we worked with the legal counsels office to replace paper-based agency procedures and replace them with a shorter automated system to speed up service delivery and therefore reduce corruption in the city's largest agency known as the property and Public Registry Department so the result has been over 1 million what 1 million eight hundred and thirty-nine thousand transactions have been processed in between the launch of this project in October of 2015 and December of 2016 on the new automated platform with a much faster turnaround time so no more paper no more hand-to-hand contact with individuals which can reduce corruption and people are getting things in one day that used to take months to get from the city in addition in Mexico City I was asked to do corruption prevent prevention training for approximately 150 of their agency procurement officials and then one last project that I'll discuss with Mexico City has been the creation of a new portal that publishes city contract information in a comprehensive format with graphics visualizations and machine readable data it has transformed the amount consistency of city procurement information available to the public and to prospective bidders it is the first municipal portal that publishes information from all contract phases delineated in the open contracting data standard and internationally recognized best practice benchmark it gives citizens a window into the city's procurements from bids through the crew from the bidding phase through the contract completion phase and for this project we were fortunate enough to be able to bring in Oct the open contracting partnership to work with Mexico City on this project and this portal was launched in June of 2016 with contracts from the finance department and since its launch there have been over 193 thousand page views to the new portal so people clearly are using the portal and are seeking out this this information by the summer of 2017 all of the remaining city agencies contracts will be populated into the portal and available in the same very transparent way in connection with all of these projects Bloomberg Associates collaborated with several departments from Mexico City's government including the controller general's office the legal counsel's office the citizen Council the Department of Finance public works among others I will also say that it takes political will from the top from the mayor to be willing to make these sorts of changes to invite public engagement and scrutiny and to open city databases to this sort of information we were also very excited to work with the city of Rio de Janeiro and there's another slide that relates to some of the the work that we've done there in the city of Rio Bloomberg associates was asked to work with a very talented team in the city that was passed with modernizing the processes by which business licenses are issued again this was a paper-based process in a protracted process and with it keen corruption vulnerabilities there were various legal operational and IT issues that had to copiously be analyzed and designed in connection with this project the result was the creation of Rio mas facil a city portal that automates the business licensing process in Rio allowing businesses and entrepreneurs to apply and obtain their business licenses on line with this initiative the city eliminated unnecessary steps in the process to obtain a business license and I think Nestor talked about outdated regulations that exist everywhere in in city law we certainly saw that in connection with this project and trim down that the the regulations that related to city licenses this in turn sped up the turnaround time and at the same time reduced corruption now licenses are issued in the city of Rio online and most are issued in in between 1 and 15 days as opposed to months and having to go to different offices throughout the city to accomplish that process the portal also includes a new data dashboard which is displayed in this slide or an example of it is displayed and it provides a wide array of information about the amount and type of business licenses that are being issued including by neighborhood and by industry throughout the city of Rio and this has been incredibly valuable information to the city as it plans and to potential entrepreneurs so that they too can see where businesses are or are not needed and where could be the best opportunity the net result of this project in Rio has been that over 55,000 business licenses have been issued online through the new portal in between launch in 2016 and March of 2017 the next slide illustrates the work that we're doing with two US cities and we're very excited to be working with our most recent city Nashville and Detroit is a city that I had been working with for about a year and a half mayor berry in Nashville and Mayor Duggan in Detroit have been great partners and I was so glad to hear that you've been in Detroit and have done some work and I want to talk to you about that but in connection with an issue that is common to most US cities Bloomberg associate convened these two cities in connection with the complexities that relate to the administration of minority and women-owned business programs known as I'm sure you know as MWBE programs which seek to increase procurement opportunities for minorities women and other historically disadvantaged populations Nashville and Detroit and cities throughout the US administer MWBE MWBE programs that have the laudable aim of inclusion and fair competition in public procurement in practice navigating the rules and realities of an MWBE program can be challenging for a city and can attract some fraudulent activity bloomberg Associates was asked to provide guidance to these two cities on ways to enhance their MDE programs and procurement policies to that end we invited the chief procurement and diversity officials from those cities who are responsible for the MWBE activities in their respective cities to participate in an MWBE workshop held this week at Columbia Law School's Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity by participating in this conference the Nashville and Detroit delegations were able to share experiences and learn from representatives from New York and New Jersey and other stakeholders in the MDE process including contractors and compliance experts about operational tools they can deploy to improve their MWBE programs this collaborative workshop provided best practices and pain pathways to making the construction industry more diverse the last city that I'll talk about is also a fairly recent city client and a wonderful one Bogota over the past several months my team at Bloomberg has also been working with the Ombudsman office in the city of Bogota the Ombudsman's office is approximately 100 120 people they have oversight of city government activities in the city of Bogota and you could say roughly was the counterpart to DOI in New York we have been supporting projects with the Ombudsman's office related to transparency oversight and anti-corruption and this engagement with Bogota has also shown us yet another strong example of city leadership and an effort to shift to more transparent practices in order to improve the lives of citizens for example Bloomberg associates has worked with the Ombudsman scheme on procurement risk management plans for city contracts and is developing a municipal ethics code which will be followed by municipal ethics training additionally Bloomberg associates with the cities working with the city on a pilot program to detect and remedy operational inefficiencies within the city's public hospital system that increase the potential for corruption and burden members of the public who need medical care so although these projects in Bogota Mexico City Rio Nashville Detroit and other cities have different focal points they all seek to strengthen the city's capacity to monitor and respond to complex difficult shifting conditions within city operations for the benefit of the public good so thank you again and I'm happy to take questions a really great panel the one thing that I heard from both of you is that in order to achieve a lot of the goals that the new urban agenda sets out we need an infrastructure for governance one that not only creates opportunities to make the cost-benefit trade-offs that you talked about to do so in a way that's transparent and accountable to as many people as possible in particular populations that may be historically disadvantaged from these processes but also I think in a way that avoids capture and corruption a lot of the problems that we see in cities and maybe even in cities with what you called clay this strong mayoral you know dictatorship so or monopoly and I wonder I guess just to kind of play at the intersection of your two talks is whether in the cities where strong mayor's are able to do more things for all the reasons that you weather or what impact that has on corruption right I mean is is that a kind of cost of those systems that is might be counter balanced against the benefits that scholars you know have I'm sure and it actually leads to a question I wanted to ask escrows so there's always a risk with with monopolies whether they're market monopoly is a political monopoly and you know one can easily come up with examples of strong leaders strong in the sense of having monopoly power who views that power and James Curley the mayor of Boston in the early 20th century was notorious not only for being reelected from prison but but also for using his monopoly power to build up his political base by devoting all as many resources he could of Boston's tax base - to that political base of his forcing out essentially those who were not going to vote to our hem so you know one can think of one can think of other examples of similar kinds of abuse of monopoly power so what it means is first of all if you're going to have monopolist you better have a benign Rao istic monopolist you know the personality is going to count these matters but it also means that um you need to be able to I want to use the word constitutionalize the the good practices which leads me to if I can suppose the work you're doing just sounds fabulous absolutely fascinating and I'm just incredibly impressed I take your point that you're able to do this because there's political will and because you've got current mayor's who are willing to take transformative steps is there a way of have you taken any steps I would call them legal steps - for instance um embed these practices in something like the city charter - within the city charter for instance which might be difficult to change once it's put in there put the the technological advances that guarantee transparency in there so that any subsequent mayor who might think gee what I'd really like to do is go back to the old system where I got lots of benefits in my political patients got lots of benefits from having less transparent system our preclude is from doing so because now what you've done becomes again I want to use the phrase constitutionalize in the sense that it's been embedded in the legal structure in a way that's very difficult to change yes we are you know I agree with what Nestor said about the law is the the foreground to city government operations I would say that the law is the canvas that is the basis for developing programs like this but we are very cognizant of the fact that we're working with mayor's who have invited us to be in these cities doing these projects they're not going to be there forever and we do want to hardwire the advancements that cities have made through these projects so the answer is yes part and parcel of what we do in addition to designing better procedures that reduce corruption vulnerabilities is work with the legal team in the city to use the mayor's here in New York it would be executive order power in other cities its decrees but whatever the the corollary is we do have the mayor's codify new procedures that we are implementing so in the city of Rio this new portal was also the subject of several decrees which phased out the older cumbersome regulations for business licensing and the new decrees codified the new streamlined rules and regulations and in Mexico City the hotline is the subject of an MoU that was signed by the mayor and multiple agencies and in Mexico City the new contract portal will also be the subject of a decree that mayor Montero signs so we are fixing things and codifying them as best we can now as I'm sure you know a new mayor can come in and write his or her own executive orders and still change things it's just I think it's a little difficult to write an executive order that takes something from being very transparent and putting it back in the dark so hopefully that won't happen but yes that is absolutely part of our repertoire these cities to hardwire these things so that's not just there for the two or three or four years that our mayor's are going to be there so let's open it up a bit to questions comments yes come and please introduce yourself you can't fix hello my name is Thomas Cogan I'm a fellow at the urban Law Center and I'm doing my doctorate and underneath door so my comment is mostly it's a ed Clayton I'd like to make three points first of all I really want to push back against how you categorize the nua as a kumbaya document I think that belies a lot of the work a lot of the hard work that went into that document and I think that many of these statements can actually pack quite a punch if they are adequately implemented my second point is is linked to this and that is that I think the strength of the new urban agenda was primarily that it was a it was the result of a highly consultative process almost to its detriment where un-habitat I guess went out of its way to incorporate not only the views of member states at a national level but also the views of cities at a local level and also civil society civil society played a huge role in the articulation of the new urban agenda and so maybe that's why in part I agree with you that the document can be quite unreal be sure but again they are very important aspirations that are contained within I mean you mentioned the one which it was afraid about the the need for inclusive economies and for an organization like we go women in informal employment and growth Unity's that was an incredibly important phrase to have in that document and it was incredibly important for them to have that phrase because it means and they've said this to meet me that they can go to governments in various jurisdictions in which they work and say look you agreed that inclusive economies are important so what does this mean let us help you figure out how we can use the law to make the lives of informal informal economy better the third the third point is on the the mechanisms issue and I mean I think that this was a criticism that you know was coming through throughout the time that you know you're creating this highly aspirational document and there's no sort of you know mechanisms to ground that and I do and I don't agree with it and I'd like to put it to you that I think that the aspirations are more important than the mechanisms and I think this is so because we're dealing with a really diverse range of political social economic legal institutional context and I wonder if you know if you were to sort of suggest certain mechanisms that that would just you know which is not work in certain contexts and therefore would be completely ignored and so perhaps an expiration document is better because it allows for this kind of diversity to to take place I also think that in in devising these mechanisms and again I think I think that speaks to a strength of the new urban agenda it divides and needs mechanisms what the new urban agenda puts forward and it's very sort of broad ethos that city making is not only the the pervane of the mayor or national governments or local governments that it is very much about how people make and shape the city through their own contested interactions and so I think again that's another reason why we shouldn't really have these netizens so just so defined within the document it's something that needs to be worked out through and to use that phrase group through a bottom-up process through a contested process that's all so you're I think you're reading me more pejoratively than I intended to convey and perhaps it's my in felicitous expression so I apologize for that I I like aspirational document but the aspirational documents play very much the role of youth you suggested for them the the problem with the aspirational document is if even if one agrees with the aspirations and I think again difficult disagree with many of the aspirations and that most of the aspirations in the anyway the hard bit it not that not that it wasn't hard to generate it I appreciate the work that went into it the real hard bit for implementation is what kind of mechanism are you going to use and what are the tripwires along those mechanisms so that's I was focusing on the boy there's there are so many tripwires and along the political economy lines necessary to implement this that the inattention to the mechanism just speaks volumes now you my guess I mean remember my message was there is no ideal governance structure so of course I agree with you particular governance structures have to be worked out bottom up they're going to vary depending on the political culture of a particular place the history of a political place the demographics of a better place sure that I don't think there's a cookie cutter answer to this within the United States one two because I love federalism is because it allows it recognizes no cookie cutter mechanism for good governance lots of different state cities try lots of different things that's what makes local governments the study of law means fund that they do so many different things so I agree with you what I would would like in the anyway is some recognition of that very fact and and that's that's what I find missing I would like some recognition of the difficulties of getting the implementation process going because of these political economy obstacles it's in that sense that again I apologize for the influence raised in kumbaya door on the argument we all stand around the campfire holding hands we sing Kumbaya it's collective we all agree with each other but then there's this big question of so what how do we then get from this this collective agreement to actual implementation so that's with that with that apology oh oh oh okay like I hear what you're saying and I mean I'd actually like to perhaps add something to to your points I mean it's a contra member than the name right now the the habitat commitment index I don't know if you've heard of that and what what what what the habitat commitment index documented was attract the progress from the Istanbul declaration in 1996 and that also contained you know it was actually a far more streamlined document then than this one is and what what what the document finds has been really really poor implementation of that document so yeah I mean I I hear what you say but and and I but I would still say maybe maybe one of the strengths of this document as compared to the Istanbul declaration is that because it was such a conference of documents there and because I think civil society has played a big role in it that they could be a great of course to figuring out how to implement it or or discussion feedback commentary yes what's the impact of the relative urban civility or a disorder in terms of implementing the urban agenda what's the impact of verbing civility the civility or disorder in terms of impact and implement in the urban agenda urban so you being questions of urban security and in renown in societies in which there's a lot of tension and violence uh-huh and and in particular ticket on the ability of a city to govern and to implement okay do out of your chest take that so yeah well let me go back to anyway the anyway sir celebrates for all the good reasons the agglomeration economies that make cities viable that allow cities to be productive the reason cities are growing is they are attracting very diverse communities of people because those countries people see opportunities in dense areas density you know I'm a Jane Jacobs person density has huge huge rewards there are agglomeration diseconomies in the world and when you're suggesting I think we thought about crime and the like is know that there's criminals also thrive in dense environments there's there's more reward some crime in dense environments so um if I my sense is the the aggregation of the agglomeration diseconomies posed a real challenge for um for urban governance and I think we're seeing many of the effects of that right now in the United States with respect to the debate about policing because policing is we think of it in an ideal kumbaya way we think of policing as our our first line of protection against some of those diseconomies and yet we faded there there's downside to policing as well so this is so my my um I although Sheila properly introduced me as a professor of contract law at the law school I'm also the director something called the Marin Institute of urban management at NYU my predecessor was is not a chief economist the World Bank until my name Paul Romer Paul has closed recent reputations the main on demonstrating the relationship between a crime and city value and as as the biggest driver of cron of a lien a municipality is crime reduction so what is the answer to your civility question I think is if we really want cities to thrive if we want cities people to realize you the possibility of agglomeration economies governance must take into account the possibility of what I think you clothed in civility and I think governance has to pay attention to that there are some attractions to incivility those of us who live in Manhattan may be attracted maybe repulsed by but at least some of us are attracted by the the weird type a strange behavior of the culture of New York City which is um which can be what what is it what is this winter this term I don't want can't be grading can be annoying and that's and for many of us that's one of the great attractions but when it takes forms that threaten physical security and economic security I think there were huge risks and I would agree with you that a good amount of governance has to be devoted to that and in a way you know it's that's unfortunate because those governance resources one would think would be it would be nice if they could be devoted towards productive energy as opposed to simply the prevention of unproductive activity so it's costly I mean I agree with what Quentin said but I also think that there is a lot of sort of good spirit in the city and-and-and you know I think that cities including New York very very hard to create an environment that is fair and equitable and it's there's the good bad and the ugly but I think that it's an ongoing challenge I think that the policing issue is an entirely separate conversation it definitely is part of the answer to this question that you've asked maybe you can flesh out a little bit more about what it is that you're looking to have us discuss but I do think that in any crowded urban environment like New York the police department is responsible for behaving appropriately and has a large task on it hands on its hands we have an extraordinary human rights commission in New York City which does a great job so I think that I don't necessarily view those sorts of functions as a drain on the city's coffers I think that they can add a lot of value so unless there are the comments did you have yes go ahead gin I don't know if this is working on a question of institutional design that you were talking about and you talked about federalism and models and experimental models and I wanted to hear a little bit more about models that address issues of inequality of inequity and inclusion and democratic participation because you know you talk about this strong mayoral model and I hear the benefits of that but there really is a lot of concern in terms of what is an inclusive system of urban governance look like and how do we push back on the centralization of power in ways that are more effective and responsive to some of the concerns about fragmentation that you mentioned um I I think there's a distinction perhaps between institutions that allow voice and institutions that ultimately make decision so I'm a huge fan of participatory institutions and one of my great affection for local government is it is the place where people can actually participate so the notion of having you know where we have 51 City Council members having so having community community boards I think is one of the huge benefits of New York City to the extent that it there are there are lots of decentralized opportunities for participation and for democratic governance so the asset the ideal for me is to have opportunities for the expression of multiple perspectives the opportunity for that expression to occur in environments where people with different views can hear each other listen to each other and and be respectful of each other's interests but then when it comes when when a decision has to be made sometimes and maybe we're talking I'm talking more about budgetary decisions and about other types of decisions that's when centralized decision-making which is different from decision-making disaggregated from lots of inputs but when it's genetically made then centralized decision-making may have some net benefits I do not I am NOT suggesting monarchy I am not suggesting that the elimination of opportunities for participation much to the contrary but I do want to draw a distinction between participation for inputs and decision-making what what I'm trying to get it is sometimes there's a disconnect between the two and are there models out there that you're aware of that are more effective at pushing the power dynamic that kind of creates and reinforces circumstances of inequality and inequity you talked about sort of the sighting of you know waste disposal units you know that invite use of environmental justice as an example like ways of more effectively dealing with the stark and growing starker I think inequalities that we're seeing yes so certainly some agencies human rights Human Rights Commission having within the structure the decision-making structure entities that in fact have as they roll the protection of certain groups so that they at least can inform even ultimate decision makers of particular interests corks so you know we have some baseline obligations that are that are set forth in law so I think of course as the as often the front line for the protection of these interests I'm coming across as far more authoritarian I'm I really am a small view Democrat yeah it's hard to be as nuanced as I'd like within a 15 20 minute conversation the focus is on the political economy of implementing the anyway Sheila suggests side I've been known to write a thing or two I'm actually an odd fan of the local initiative and referendum yeah so I'm gonna plead guilty to being a small Big D Democrats ooh but it's small the Democrat and but I've also written in praise of financial control boards that suspend democratic decision-making because I think sometimes you know societies get themselves into a fiscal mess and the only way you get out is to take a break now you know I would not want the fiscal Control Board that that had that completely in perpetuity took away power from elected officials something that happened in the 1970s in New York City I think we today benefit greatly from some of the some of the steps taken that had never been taken through electoral politics by the Mac and the fiscal Control Board so I just want to add to that there so our system of federalism you know creates opportunities for experimentation and I think there are interesting experiments that we can look at that even blend the line between what you call voice and decision making set or centralization in decentralization and I would point to participatory budgeting as one of those experiments as here in New York all around the world and you've still got the central decision-maker the city controls the budget the mayor etc but then they cut a piece of it off and really do give the power to various neighborhoods that's an experiment I think how does that work in the end but it's interesting that that we're in an era now of experimentation around governance with a particular with blurring these lines that I think we've in particular scholars have been want to kind of draw right and just to pivot off of what eulogist said participatory budgeting was one of the examples that I in fact was going to cite you as a model it's it's not even that nascent any longer there are a lot of cities at this juncture that are setting aside a percentage of their budgets that are decided on by the people and the city of Paris for example is a big leader in this arena and set aside I believe Jamie's at five percent of their budget five percent of the Paris budget City Paris budget that's a lot of money that is allocated based on choices from citizens and and then another area that is very interesting is governance participation so Mexico City went from being a federal district similar to our Washington DC it became a state in Mexico this past year and therefore they had to create a charter for the newly formed state of Mexico Mexico City and the mayor there did something very creative which was to invite the citizenry in the city to provide ideas as to things that should be in the Charter so they were creating this charter it was a legal process that's played out for about 20 months it was passed in the last three or four months and there are certain provisions now in the city charter that came directly from the input from citizens so as an example and I don't have the numbers but in terms of the square mileage within Mexico City and it's an enormous City there now has to be by law a certain amount of public green or park space and that came from an idea from a citizen who participated in this portal the survey that they opened to invite ideas for how to govern and run the city so I thought that was very interesting and we're working with Paris on something like that the mayor there is interested in receiving a lot more input from the people as it relates to local regulation and is looking to have people buy-in on the front End and understand you know what it means to you know govern a large city like that and so we're working with them exactly on a governance participation kind of an idea and one of the I think best price best practice examples of it comes from Mexico City and then just because I spent the entire week really working on MW DBE issues the fact the matter is that that is a program that is all about inclusion and there was a state New York state agency that was part of the panel discussion this week and the opportunity for minority women disadvantaged businesses to participate in the 30% goal of that agency alone is six billion dollars so if you have a program like that and you have people who are running it well or in the case of the people that I met this week are looking to run it even better that's a huge opportunity for business inclusion in in cities that's a great place to end so we're running a few minutes behind in general but I want to thank you rose and clay very--it's it was brilliant and deep and thank you so much exactly what we wanted to kick off the day and so I think we're going to take a five minute break and move into the second panel Oh all right I think we're I think we're going to get started again [Music] gilberto is out rounding up a few stragglers on and before we get started I will say for those of you who can sit through to the end hopefully you will have an opportunity to join us for lunch afterwards we'll have a little bit of food and a chance to reflect a little bit more on on the incredibly rich conversation we've been having today I will say the first panel is a hard act to follow but I have no doubt that our two panelists for our second discussion are up to the task and I'm just going to introduce each of them briefly and then hand it over and we'll get going so Jocelyn Drummond is an urban planner with experience in research GIS urban design data visualization has been with the city of Boston's assessing department and an incredible expertise in data evaluation and and residential properties she received her master's in city planning from MIT and an a B in architecture from Princeton and just incredible depth of experience to bring to the conversation Frank Pasquale [Music] there's so much to draw from in his biography he's a professor at the University of Maryland with an expertise in information law and the way information and changing technology in healthcare and other sectors we've encountered each other in many conversations about cities and his book the black box society the secret algorithms that control money and information from Harvard in 2015 on developed a social theory of reputation search and Finance and with that I'm going to hand it over and I look forward to the conversation thank you great thank you for that introduction and thank you to the UN habitat and the urban law Center for having me today I had some slides so I've been asked to speak about this topic of data and urban governance and specifically from a research and policy perspective I'll start out by discussing a little bit about the new urban agenda and some of the things that I drew from this document particularly the term evidence-based governance I'll also discuss some lessons learned from the public health and planning fields which I think are very relevant to this discussion and relevant to the nua I'll talk a little bit about some new tools and this new push toward open data that we're seeing in cities around the country and then finally I'll go into a little bit more detail about my role at the CUNY Institute for state and local governance specifically the project that I work on which is the Equality indicators project so looking at the new orbit agenda I believe this is paragraph 159 things that stood out to me were particularly the emphasis on reducing inequality and the fact that gender equality is pointed out specifically this relates very directly to our work with the Equality indicators project and the second quote I pulled was specifically about evidence-based governance which is a quote that sort of I think sets the stage for today's discussion and I'll actually return back to this quote to tie it directly to some of the work we're doing it the Institute for state local governance so I wanted to start by providing some examples kind of broad examples of evidence-based governance and I think that the public health field is a real leader in this sense public health surveillance as a term or at the concept is a continuous systematic collection analysis and interpretation of health-related data needed for the planning implementation and evaluation of public health practices I think this concept in this term and this this kind of initiative is exactly what the new orbit agenda is hoping for you know in realms beyond public health epidemiology specifically looks at the incidence of disease and the distribution of disease and other health-related factors specifically figuring out how these different factors implement health outcomes but also health practice and policies and environmental science is also tied to this public health surveillance looking specifically at environmental factors so other things beyond sort of disease that impact health outcomes and practice and policy in addition the public health field I think is expanding the traditional notion of what are determinants of health to include aspects of the social economic and physical environment so for example there is a lot of research emerging about the impact of exposure to crime or violence on outcomes in health or concentrated poverty or things like housing quality or air quality in terms of the physical environment and I think one very specific example in the New York City context is something that I've researched a good amount and was learned about during the Miami urban fellow year at the Department of Transportation is active design guidelines which is initiative that was that came about under the Bloomberg administration and is a really great example I think of using public health research and data to inform guidelines that were then eventually in headed into policy from the urban planning perspective I think that this kind of new use and reliance on maps is incredibly important to consider from maps we can learn a lot about cities from neighborhood characteristics such as locations of hospitals or transportation systems but also this example of a map from the NYU Thurman Center on what they've classified as non gentrifying and gentrifying neighborhoods so there are ways that researchers are really relying on maps to visualize data in a way that's accessible to the public and to researchers alike urban planners and other fields and other policymakers are also relying on new software so actual spatial analysis to dive deeper into data and not just visualize it in a spatial way but analyze it in a spatial way and an example of this comes from the city the New York City Department of City Planning and their food retail expansion to support health or fresh program this is an interesting example of evidence-based governance they've essentially created a supermarket need index which is an index of a number of different factors including demographics of a neighborhood health outcomes that are related to healthy food as well as the location of existing supermarkets and the results of this index was to designate certain areas in the city that were high Supermarket need and therefore influenced policy to incentivize and prioritize the development of supermarkets in certain neighborhoods I believe this initiative is no longer in effect I think just simply because of the complexity in understanding sort of spatial data and also the viability of supermarket development in an ever increasingly unaffordable city like New York but I think it's still a very very good example of ways that City Planning departments and others are using data in a spatial way to inform policy I want to take a step back and sort of reflect on how timely this discussion is big data is a term that is used in seemingly every sector every industry in the country in the world right now and I think we've heard a lot of good examples actually from Bloomberg associates of you know examples of using different tools and models to have a more transparent government I think that's a very great valuable goal these are some examples I guess more small-scale and domestic that have recently been written up in next city that I thought were kind of interesting examples of partnerships between different sort of data organizations and local and state governments to either make their operations more efficient help them better understand their populations and neighborhoods on the ground using data but also to empower them to use data in a way that can actually inform their policy urban insights for example the last example I have on this slide it's both a data and analytics service provider but they also consult directly with governments to better understand what the data is saying and help it inform their policy another thing I wanted to speak about briefly is this sort of trend toward open data and transparency which I get again I think is very important and I think New York is a really great example of this a real leader in this realm at the citywide level the New York City open data portal has a wealth of information from a number of agencies for the most part it is quite up to date the level of I guess usability can vary depending on what data set you're looking at some are very easy to understand some are very complicated sometimes the data is missing it's just sort of the that's sort of you know it comes with the territory in terms of making data publicly available but also at the City Department level or the city agency level again the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene I think is a real leader in terms of not only collecting really important data on people and populations and subgroups of the population but making it available online there at the query portal has data on Devon graphics but also health outcomes health behaviors access to health care services those are really there's a lot of information on that website and then an academic sphere there are many institutions in New York and elsewhere likes in New York NYU's are a firming center that are also dealing a lot with data and have a real mission to make it accessible and open to the public so their recent core data initiative has over a hundred indicators of Housing and neighborhoods in New York and it's been a real resource for us as a Research Institute and I imagine for many others as well and then finally at the community level there are a number of nonprofit and advocacy organizations that specialize also in data usually focusing on one particular population so for example the Citizens Committee for children collects and track a lot of data around youth and children and child welfare and also make that data available to the public so now I'm going to introduce the CUNY Institute for state and local governance which is the research and Policy Institute that I work for we are part of the research foundation at CUNY and our mission is really a data-driven mission so the role of our work is to use a data-driven or evidence-based approach to inform policymaking and decision making in a number of local and state jurisdictions including New York I think we've heard a lot about the importance of state and local jurisdictions for the new urban agenda and we really do believe in that importance and also the opportunities to experiment and develop new models and strategies for tackling some of our biggest societal problems a lot of our work actually focuses on criminal justice and I'll talk a little bit about two examples of the projects that we have currently one is the MacArthur Foundation safety and justice challenge this is a seventy five million dollar initiative in which they are funding it started a first round with twenty cities to create plans for reducing their jail population and really revitalizing their criminal justice system the local or state level the second round in the second round 11 cities were chosen to implement those plans and our role at islg is to provide technical assistance in terms of data collection and tracking the progress and the improvement of the system as these plans are implemented frequent utilizers of the criminal justice health and social service systems is another example of one of our projects that deals with multiple jurisdictions so in this case we're talking about both cities and counties and in this work we are also providing a sort of data and technical assistance service in order to create profiles of who frequent utilizers are in each of these places we use data that's collected locally from each of these systems for the criminal justice system the health and social service systems and so the challenge with this is to create sort of metrics and a way of measuring progress both at the local level but also create a national framework to really be able to compare data from jurisdiction to jurisdiction finally the project that I work on specifically and that I'll spend a little bit more time talking about today is the Equality indicators project so this is a framework for measuring inequality or equality whichever way you want to think about it in New York City across six different areas and tracking progress over time we've been working on this project for about three years now we have two years of data and we're in the process of expanding to other cities it's funded by the Rockefeller Foundation as part of their inclusive economies portfolio I want to tie very specifically to the new urban agenda some of the things that we do with the Equality indicators project so in this quote from the new urban agenda I noticed a sort of emphasis on multiple different kinds of sustainability challenges including housing infrastructure services food security health education jobs safety among other things all of these things are things that we measure in our quality indicators framework and just a reminder it is in the New York City context but I think that there are lessons to be learned from our New York City framework so as I mentioned our our framework includes sixteen so we've got economy education health housing justice and services within each of these themes there are four subtopics and then within each of those topics there are six indicators for certain four indicators for a total of 96 indicators they're measuring inequality or equality in New York and again the purpose is to track change over time another connection to the new urban agenda speaks to this goal of giving particular attention to certain disadvantaged groups so I've highlighted here women and girls children and youth persons with disabilities and older persons because these are groups that we also try to address in our quality indicators framework but as you can see there are a number of others some of which I think are more relevant to the global context but again I think there are definitely lessons to be learned from our city framework for our quality indicators we focus on 12 disadvantaged groups in New York City this is partly a you know the disadvantaged groups that we think are important to study in any one of these areas but also the groups for which we could actually find data so I think that's one of the big challenges is sometimes you want to measure something but the data is just simply not available but for the groups that we could find data on they are children immigrants individuals in jail or on probation those living in poverty those live with a physical or intellectual disability those with less than a high school diploma the LGBTQ community racial and ethnic minorities religious minorities seniors single parents and women and again these are groups that we identify which we identified in equalities in New York City but in any given City local or state jurisdiction or country these groups would obviously be very different so given our six themes and our focus on 12 disadvantaged groups our definition of equality which is actually drawn from the the UN Declaration of Human Rights is that that everyone has the same economic educational health housing justice and service outcomes regardless of race ethnicity and a number of other characteristics I'll speak a little bit about our data sources as we are speaking about data today and I think this is kind of an important thing to consider especially when we talk about evidence-based governance for the quality indicators in New York we started out with administrative data because many agencies do collect a lot of data on our population and then that was supplemented by secondary public survey data which is primarily the census whether it's the American Community Survey or the current population survey and then finally as I mentioned there are certain disadvantaged groups and certain topics that are just not represented in the existing data so we actually conduct an annual public survey of over 3,000 New Yorkers to collect data including demographic data and be able to answer asked questions that you really can't get from a sort of quantitative point of view I'll also speak a little bit about what we mean by a quality indicator because a lot of indicator systems out there deal with social indicators so social indicators measure something across an entire population so for example the unemployment rate would be the unemployment rate for everyone in New York City for equality indicators we are measuring outcomes between two specific groups so for any one indicator we've identified who is the most and least disadvantaged in that group and the question is how do they compare so for all of our indicators we will take two groups and their measurements create a ratio between those two groups which then corresponds to an equality score so our scoring system is from 1 to 100 again to make that sort of easily accessible and understandable and also to be able to track change very clearly over time so for every indicator is scored on one to 100 every topic also 1 to 100 and every theme 1 to 100 I'll talk a little bit about our findings from this year so we have two years of data from 2015 and 2016 and one year of change you'll see here the sort of averaged score of from 1 to 100 of the six themes that we're studying health in both years was the lowest performing a team and in 2015 I believe the highest was education and the highest in 2016 with services a small anecdote I'd like to share here is that one of the questions that we asked on the public survey is what do you think is the biggest inequality issue in New York and unsurprisingly there are a lot of responses related to economic inequality income inequality or race and racial inequality but what we see in the data is actually health inequality is the biggest issue and I think it's just something that people don't really consider or it's so embedded in their life that it doesn't really come across when you ask that kind of a survey question at the topic level I don't want to get too into the weeds here but you can see we also as I mentioned track change over time and so we're keeping an eye on how things are improving or not improving as the case may be so this is at the topic level we saw great improvement in arts and culture and essential needs and services but on the opposite ends of the spectrum fairness of the justice system and employment saw pretty significant negative change and this really has to do with the kinds of indicators that we're using and the metrics that we've decided to pick out and I'll talk a little bit about that at the end finally at the indicator levels this is really drilling down this is some examples of the kind of data we're collecting so for example probation status and unemployment again we're comparing two different populations so we're looking at individuals that are on probation versus a general population and calculating their unemployment rate calculating a ratio and determining that the inequality is so great that it is at the very low end of the spectrum it is a indicate quality score of one out of 100 which is terrible it can't actually get any worse on the flip side location and public library availability for example we compared libraries in Manhattan and outside of Manhattan to see if they were open all week and just last year they happen to extend the hours of some libraries so the score went from I guess 40 is this yeah 40 to 100 in one year so you know these are the kind of things that just come with the territory when you're creating a framework like this but it's you know nice to see some positive change even if it's the impact is maybe a little bit less important I'll speak briefly about some of the policy implications of this work it's primarily a research tool at this point but with every annual report we do tie the indicators and the measurements and the change that we're seeing to the policies that are happening on the ground whether they're existing or proposed because we really want to sort of recognize how policy might be having an impact on the things we're measuring but also keep an eye on future policies to see if the anticipated impact actually happens so for example we have a number of indicators on justice and fairness to the justice system and also victimization and violence and so something like the New York City cure violence initiative is a very kind of broad initiative that has a lot of wraparound services and so that's something we would hopefully see a you know progress in and those indicators in some instances that we are working directly with government agencies so we do do some work with the Department of Health again they are a leader in terms of not only collecting data and recording data but identifying disparities that's one of their real focuses and so we see a lot of there's a great ways to partner with that agency and then finally because we're providing data that wasn't available before we do have this sort of new data source that has primarily been used by community members or community groups but we do see the opportunities to provide this kind of data for city agencies as well so just sort of to wrap up I wanted to come back to this quote and this sort of term of evidence-based governance specifically pulling out from this quote the this idea of locally generated data so in a city like New York we already have a lot but we still needed to collect more and I think there's a great opportunity but also a great challenge in terms of actually generating this data and secondly focusing specifically on the fact that we need to have this data disaggregated so if one of the goals of the new urban agenda is to reduce inequality in order to understand inequality where it exists and how it can be addressed we have to have data disaggregated so we can compare groups to each other and I'll just close on some challenges and opportunities that I've sort of encountered as through working with the Equality indicators project but also with data in general I've mentioned this several times but I think it's important to mention again sometimes data are just not available on certain topics and groups in New York for example the LGBTQ community there's very little data collected and for our purposes it really needs to be collected on an annual basis to track change over time and that adds a whole other layer of complication the second point I think speaks a little it speaks to sort of some of the things that we heard in the first panel in terms of having a more coordinated approach to data collection and sharing not only among city agencies but between governments and research organizations and institutions between government and advocacy groups and that speaks to the need for transparency and open data and then finally in terms of tracking change over time things can get a bit tricky when what is measured changes from year to year so there's a great importance in terms of standardizing how data are collected how it's reported in order to really be able to determine what progress has been made or where there is still room for improvement and if you would like to wear it anymore about the Equality indicators there's a whole lot of information on our website and at islg we do as I mentioned a number of projects specifically about data-driven governance and around the criminal justice field thank you [Applause] well thank you so much for that really enlightening presentation and I think that I'll have some commentary on some of the data collection here based on some work on big data and predictive analytics in law that I've been doing over the past few years I also wanted to apologize for coming in slightly late it turned out that the B line was down but I did learn that you can get so it's called a block ticket which is a free ride do I have to go to another so news you can use but but but I started with that little digression is not just to excuse myself but also because I think that you know a lot of times what's really fascinating about the merger of a lot of high-tech digital methods with existing forms of city governance is that you have a certain mind often out of you know Silicon Valley sort of tech mindset that really wants to solve problems and wants to get as much data as possible to solve them but it's sometimes superimposed on older structures that are very difficult to and achieving that sort of merger is difficult and so that'll be a theme of my presentation today is you know trying to merge and trying to marry together the best of some of the older modes of governance and some of the traditions of urban planning urban studies with the new sort of tech mindset and part of what I wanted to get across from this presentation is the idea that the smart city is a very important initiative but in some ways we have chosen a very narrow vision of smartness and it's what I would call an artificially intelligent City and toward the end of the presentation I'm gonna try to develop a concept of the wise city because I think wisdom might be just as important as smartness in this area so fine and my overview is that of course the smart city initiatives have a lot of ways to improve health education and transport we saw some wonderful examples from the Bloomberg associates earlier this morning I also want to look at some of the shadow side of surveillance and social exclusion that could come from some of these initiatives and how a wise city can learn from law sociology Urban Studies and other fields and I think right now we have a lot of economics we have a lot of engineering that is you know really advising and helping to build the smart city but how do we learn from other fields I particularly like the work of Shannon mattering who's really looked at some of the smart city discourse and tried to bring in some of these other social scientific fields one so if we look at a company like IBM they offer a vision for the smart city that is about things like instrumentation interconnection and intelligence across a whole array of different city services and this is a slide that I've you know borrowed from them it's online and by the way I'm happy to share my slide presentation with anyone if you'd like to follow up further because I know there's some of them are kind of packed with information and just email me Frank Pasquale at gmail and and the vision for the Smarter Cities here shows that there's a real emphasis here on trying to bring together data systems that have been siloed traditionally and so maybe you can learn about water usage from your communication system maybe you can learn about bringing business to town from say energy usage or other things like that and I think also this idea of interconnecting this data it is something that we actually saw I think pioneered as part of the policy discourse in the u.s. after 9/11 when there was the Christ of the intelligence sharing environment and part of the dialogue here is do we think that the intelligence sharing environment is something that we can learn from for lots of other fields or and I think we can but we can counterbalance that with some of the lessons that we've learned about say--it's potential abuses so we can go forward so for example if we look at the instrumented interconnected and intelligent vision of IBM you know we have already cities are implementing some of these things we have in Venice sensors to manage pollution in Chicago improving insert Emergency Management in Rotterdam you know the city's water infrastructure and operations these are all really interesting ways of implementing smart city initiatives to give a little sense of the shadow side though let me give a few examples one could be you know in the Rotterdam example is a terrific one I think we need to know a lot more about save water wastage that's a huge problem in terms of like leaky pipes other problems certainly where I'm from in Baltimore you know that's been an issue but I'm supervising a paper this term about the use of public health epidemiology to allocate police resources and actual Fourth Amendment implications of that and to explain that that a little bit further you know we now know that you can do Public Health epidemiology on say the load of drugs coming from sewage into a given area right so you might know that say a given city uses more of certain drugs than others one question that raised gets raised by a smart city is how granular can that data get right what if we know for example that a certain block has a high concentration of cocaine in the sewage or cocaine residue or other things like that what if we know the certain has a certain other residues that might be evidence of criminal activity and even imagine if we got this down to the house by house level you know that could eventually be a part of a smart sewage system or something that's going to raise really difficult questions about the future of law enforcement and the degree to which that type of data is simply subsumed under existing third party doctrine the third party doctrine Fourth Amendment law really gives police and authorities a lot of the power to get access to such information or not I also think that for example with the Chicago you know in terms of installing the new cameras on the one hand we could say that you know that's a very important initiative in terms of how to make sure that we allocate scarce resources better but I think we've also all got to be aware of the ongoing controversies over predictive policing and how essentially a lot of predictive policing tools they use algorithms that were based on earthquakes and sort of like the the aftershocks of earthquakes they used algorithms to analyze that to analyze the how often after a shooting there would be more shootings that's a that's certainly an innovative and interesting idea but one of the fundamental flaws of the original set of data could be that we find more crime where we initially put more police you know if you look at Kathy O'Neal's book weapons of mass destruction her worry is but essentially by these initial data sets can be biased and they can bias the activity in ways that biases future data collection so that's one worry that comes out of this literature you can go forward and just to sort of wax a little poetic or imagistic for a bit um the the larger worry that I try to get into my book the black box society it built a bit and actually another Fordham Law Professor agile ridin Berg's image of the transparent citizen and so with jewel ridin burger he works a lot in privacy and he worries that all this data collection eventually can make us our lives transparent to authorities and corporations they know more and more about us and then the question becomes you know what do we know about them and I think thanks to Open Data initiatives and thanks to a lot of efforts you know to have open data contracting standards and other things like that we are opening the black box of data collection but we're not there yet because in many of these scenarios and I opened with the IBM slides for a reason trade secrecy makes it very difficult for us to understand how contractors with cities are using the debate and developing algorithms and this type of question is very important and what's also even even more cutting edge topic than trade secrecy of data collection use of analysis is now there are many people in technology firms that say machine learning is so complicated even if we open it up the black box and this was a very good review of my book even if we open up the black box could anyone understand what's going on right and that becomes an issue to do we want to allow machine learning to make more of these decisions or not now I think in responding to this I want to draw on two ideas from the new urban agenda and some ideas from the work of Sheila foster you knows all of our conveners today which is that the manure bird agenda there's really in paragraph 89 and in paragraph 104 of a big commitment to governance and to mapping right and part of Sheila Foster's vision in an article on cities as Commons is to see that we need to treat the city as a Commons that is subject to democratic institutions like collaboration poly centrosome and horizontal subsidiarity and I think part of our commitment to the task to be that you can only govern what you can understand and I think to the extent that we want governance of smart city initiatives we should be very wary of opaque algorithms or overly complicated methods of artificial intelligence like machine learning that are not subject to review and are not subject to democratic interrogation and you see this recently there was in wire editorial by a guy named Jason to Shia who is really into the the tech here he runs at something called justice codes and he was saying that he was very wary about algorithmic sentencing or algorithmic even an algorithmic advice on sentencing because the company Northpoint that creates the algorithms that help judges determine who's more likely to reoffended about these algorithms and doesn't allow that type of inspection and so I think that's one initial commitment that we need to make as we work on the smart city now to go further and I'm going to drill down a little bit further on this with two deployments of smart city technology in Camden and Jersey which the health side I'm very excited about the policing side I'm a little wary about but I think it still could be a very positive step so in terms of the health side we could move forward one of the most important buzzwords in health policy nowadays is something called integrative community health management and I actually run a podcast called the weaken health law and for one of the episodes I interviewed someone named Jessica mantle who's an expert on those community health management systems and she emphasizes that integration of wraparound data could really help dealing with some of the frequent fliers the people that are in the emergency room 20 50 100 times a year at cetera and gathering this data is really important and there's going to be battles over each new source of data that gets added to an aggregated wellness record right so we may say I want to know the environmental data about a certain neighborhood and be able to integrate that into someone's health record that might be relatively uncontroversial although there might be some controversies about that that we can get into however as we try to add say education data policing data financial data other forms of data people get a little uneasy we know already that the geisinger Health System in Pennsylvania has added credit scoring data because in its effort to reduce hospital readmissions it has learned that people with lower credit scores are more likely to have less medication adherence right that's their worry and there's even a company that's paralyzing credit fair Isaac Heiko which is behind the FICO score which has developed a FICO medication adherence score which is used in these areas right and so this is one of those areas where the health systems are saying we can integrate this data in and by the way as a privacy attorney only does this raise some interesting privacy issues in terms of to what extent is the credit data that's brought into an integrated wellness record subject to the rules of HIPAA and state health privacy laws can that be a separate record is it the same record you know great legal issues raised by that so those are some of the issues that we're raising and I do think that the wraparound data will help and certainly Jeff Renner's work has helped here in Camden New Jersey to bring these accountable care organizations to get them a data that they need and by the way these are data intensive enterprises I mean they have to report the government on 33 quality measures in order to get part of the shared savings or the Medicare Shared savings programs they have to demonstrate either stable or improving quality on those 33 measures so the future of health policy under things like echoes and Macra is very data-intensive but the question is you know how far will we go and searching for that data to improve outcomes now if we can go on a little bit further now a second and I'm sorry for there's a bit of an abstract slide but this is about the the sharing of information that was used in the Camden effort to improve policing and this gets to the question on order right stability in order and how we're doing to trying to develop more order in some somewhat disorderly or urban spaces and part of that involves fusion centers that are able to share information about between state law enforcers federal law enforcers domestic intelligence agencies others using tools that may have been developed in occupied territories so for example using tools about you know gun shot location indicators other things like that and these are all tools that can lead to more and better order but there are also tools that if misused can lead to really problematic surveillance of groups like black lives matter so we are getting a lot of points right now that are showing and what I would kind of surprises me about this is that I worked on an article with Daniel citron on fusion centers in 2011 called Network accountability for the domestic intelligence apparatus and we already were drawing on CLU data that showed certain inappropriate uses of surveillance against they protesting groups or what we felt were inappropriate and should at least have been subject to more democratic interrogation but it appears that it's still being done and I think certainly the current Department of Justice is not going to be doing much about this and so that worries me I think that really is something where we have to say on the one hand we have to be able to embrace new forms of policing on the other hand we have to constantly be vigilant about bad usages so if we can go further and you know one of the things that you know there's controversy over this but this is like to me the the the scenario that we must avoid I think is there's a there's a Chinese document but actually the government introduced as a social credit score so remember when I talked earlier about the credit scoring and the medication adherence and how many ways in which this could be sort of a model of social control and social evaluation well according to the Chinese a planning outline for a social credit system there would be a score that you'd have that the government would have that you could share with your friends that would be you could put on your Weibo or your WeChat accounts that could sort of verify your like your eBay reputation score but this score would include things like late payments on bills or traffic tickets that could hurt you but we could also hurt you would be posting political opinions that were on pot that were against the regime and what is particularly I think worrisome about this system is its leveraging social data and the way it's doing that is that if you're you post something that lowers your score say a political opinion that lowers your score your friend scores will be lowered and they'll be notified it was about you okay so to me that is a deeply problematic sort of a VA ssin of how far this could go now this is not official eyes yet this is just part of like a general you know government planning document but I think it's something to really stand up against because I think it's a mode of social control that quantifies things and we have to be really wearing I think about the power of quantification right if you could be you could have your whole mood ruined or or uplifted by some score you know or so you know I even find it on my I use the progressive snapshot in my car and if you hard break it lowers your recive snapshot car is a score and it beeps three times goes beep-beep-beep and boy I get so mad when I you know hear that beep beep beep and I'm gonna get a score that's probably a meaningless indicator of my driving ability but there it'll be it'll be quantified and transferable and I can show people look what a good driver I am and this power of quantification really we have to wrestle with and we have to be very responsible when we use it ok further so that's part of my research agendas but over the past you know five years or so looking at how the scoring in all these different areas affects law enforcement finance and medical areas and you know I realize this is a busy slide again I can send it to folks that are interested but I think what these ideas sort of bring up in each of these these areas and what I've been trying to write about is that the sort of principles that we have of democratic legitimacy and of trying to bring in democratic conversation we have to bring those in not only to urban planning processes but to the scores that are used to advise government about things ranging from the how well the health care system is doing how well the policing system is doing etc this is really a form of new governance and I know there is a form of new governance in the sociology literature that serve about this kind of consultation collaborative decision making perhaps this is even the new new governance is scoring right it's sort of cut to the chase get rid of the deliberation get give us scores but on some of them we have to bring in we have to bring back some of these consultative methods and by the way I think part of it also and I guess I'll go to my last slide so now is that if we're going to have a Y City I think that we're going to need to realize but intelligence is not just an inherent characteristic but it reflects the interests and predisposes predispositions of those doing the measuring right and this brings me to a concept actually from another one of our conveners today Nestor Davidson's article on localist administrative law where unit serve talked about the tension between informality and procedural legitimacy right and so part of like the smart city and part of a lot of data initiatives is to take advantage of flexibility and have informal agreements between say the urban urban governance and tech companies and not to be bogged down in paperwork right but sometimes the paperwork is there for a reason or sometimes you know the process these are there for a reason and public review is there for a reason and I think being able to resolve this tension between informality and procedural legitimacy that's going to be one of many of our goals that we should have as we move from say a smart city oops sorry as we move from say a smart city dialog to a wide city dialog so with that thank you phenomenal and I'll take the moderators prerogative for a moment just to reflect on what we're seeing in many ways is evidence of what clay Gillette on our last panel talked about some of the internal tensions and you know I think the the new urban agenda both in terms of its own self-reflection data is very important to how the new urban agenda holds itself accountable or wants to hold itself accountable but also data is important to actually realizing many of the goals right so technology platforms for citizen engagement throughout I was reading it earlier and just noting I was sort of putting a big D in the in in several of the areas where as law is instrumental to advancing the agenda data is instrumental as well and I think it's really interesting seeing both the potential and the transparency that can come from that but also as you say the dark side and Jocelyn I guess I would just invite you perhaps to take our first response because I'm really fascinated for your take on on Frank's concerns absolutely I felt myself nodding very Suzie ethically and many things you were saying I think a lot of what you mentioned in terms of the dark side and and had the sort of power and responsibility of data what you're collecting how you're collecting it how you're reporting it and sort of the black box that exists in many instances it's something that we struggled with in creating a framework that is supposed to measure equality in New York which is a huge city with a very diverse population I think there's a lot of power to a sort of participatory process in terms of identifying what needs to be measured and how it should be measured so I can give an example when we were determining what indicators to measure what is important to capture for each of these populations we started out with sort of our internal expertise from working with a number of indicator systems both in the United States and globally we we talked to substantive and methodological experts but we also held a series of community meetings which were unfortunately I was not there in person I hadn't joined islg at the time but I've heard were quite sort of fascinating discussions about what people feel is the inequality they're experiencing and how it should be measured or suggestions about how to better capture something and I think that there's a rankling a lot of power in picking out what to show and what not to show and I think there's also something to be said for I guess being a third party and a measuring city government essentially and in most cases we are measuring the performance of the city we are based in New York but we're trying to expand to other cities right now and it was important that it was our system with a house was in CUNY which is a City University but not within the mayor's office for example so there's something to be said for having a third party component where you can sort of measure and partner when necessary but really have a more objective point of view tastic so Frank something you said just really struck me and you said that you can only govern what you can understand and got me thinking about the governance implications you know to go back to the first panel of what we call quote-unquote open data I mean so we use this term open data a lot but I wonder whether it's open data has this you know draws us into thinking that it's a open or public good when it's really become a kind of private click because it's not understandable right so is so if you if this data is subject to FOIA requests or in the public university system or otherwise open it's in fact people can't understand it then it's not an information Commons and it's not even a public good and what are the implications of that I think for achieving some of the goals of the urban agenda particularly if we think that achieving those goals requires a robust infrastructure for governance and not just the monopoly form of governance that Clay talked about either at the mayoral level or the city administration but a more participatory form of governance and so what are the implications of everything you just said for moving towards a city or cities in which as more and different kinds of people come together and the problems become thicker and more complex and we need more inputs into solving those problems and data is one input but it's one of the least accessible inputs right what are some of the implications do you think for the Y City right I mean how do we get over that because I think that's an incredibly important and sticky issue that just traverses so many ernet health so I worked in Camden on environmental issues and the one thing that always happened is that the EPA would have these hearings and they would present all this data and no one understood what they were talking about so and you could just cut across all areas from health to policing etc what would a society look like in which people not only got the data but understood it in which even communities could use it for community-based health measurements for you know community policing so so what have you thought about that in the context of the Y City because the Y City to me also has all these governance implications yeah god that's I mean that was such an interesting range of issues and I'm going to give some answer one answer that I think is sort of just a general good and then one that sort of introduces some tensions that come out with it between say comprehensibility and fairness which i think is sometimes a really difficult tension so the one group I've been working with over the past few years or we we were together for a couple years was called the Council on big data ethics in society and one of the things that it emphasized a lot was education like trying to make data modules available whether it's in the form of MOOCs whether it's like earlier education part of like college programs etc just to spread the expertise on data analytics so education is a huge part of that and I know the Transit Center now has a project the New York Transit Center has a project that's about creating modules and sort of easy to use Python modules for people to analyze some of the data that the MTA is releasing so community groups will be able to look at head lays and other issues like in terms of the you know I don't know all the technical trouble transit terms but they'll be able to really analyze that maybe be able to have more of a input you even see on Twitter when you know 2nd Avenue subway responds to a ferry and says well wait a second this area actually looks more underserved than that area it's so interesting the politics of data and who is able to parse it and who isn't now in terms of on the consumer side arch on Phung has this really interesting collection of articles on transparency initiatives in government and they say for example if you want to rate restaurants you know don't give a 200-page analysis of the restaurants and what happens you know just have ABC or red yellow green or something like that right and that's something that people can really understand um it turns out though a lot of restaurants think that that's not granular enough or they might just be a little bit into the B range and they really upset about that and so this is other empirical research by a Stanford professor Derek hull who's challenged these sorts of transparency initiatives and is said that if you try to simplify it too much that's going to make it too difficult to understand so this I think is a really hard question in you know public consumption of data analysis that I look forward to being part of some of those debates and I'm sure you know I'd love to hear Jocelyn fuss about that how did how to get data the people can understand and use and their daily lives I can speak briefly to that I think sort of one of the goals of creating a framework that was easily accessible and creating a sort of scoring system was to make it so that people could understand it I will say that it's still a challenge to fully a click the framework is quite complex and so even you know with any sort of attempts to simplify it in a way and perhaps leave a level of detail is quite complicated and I think the I guess the implications of a certain inequality score often difficult to determine as well and sort of the interpretation of data can be very subjective not only in terms of how you measure and how you report it but what a certain group or person individual would actually Greene from a certain score or progress or lack thereof so it is quite complex and even in sort of our sort of a I guess sub world of the Equality indicators were definitely seeing a lot of this in our conversations with individuals and community groups in New York City just one other example of the downside of that I did some work at HUD about fair housing and and it was an attempt to have a data-driven approach to fair housing planning and there was a proposal floated very early on to aggregate a lot of community indicators to essentially a restaurant-style ABC you know on opportunity and integration and a couple of other indicators and it became very clear as policymakers were thinking about it that it could have the unintended consequence of actually driving people away from certain communities so if you had a rating and people were making choices about where to live and not just where to eat it could have all sorts of bad unintended consequences because it was very salient and and so the department moved away from that pretty quickly to a slightly more nuanced to segregated view sure that just reminded me of another quick example I showed the map of the Furman centers gentrification study which I think speaks to that exact issue you know good real estate tool right exactly exactly what it means for a person who lives in that community is very different to a develop speculative developer who sees that this is sort of been identified from a data perspective as a great place to buy and flip a house yeah I just wanted to and another thing sort of related is sort of the complexity and losing detail when you try to reducing two numbers something that as far as I know has not we can't figure out how to measure yet is is really gentrification and particularly displacement because if you can measure neighborhood characteristics and have a change over time but we have no way of determining who left and why they left where they forced out do they choose to leave and so I think this is an area of research where data can certainly be helpful but there are a lot of complexities in what you're trying to measure that probably can't be quantified at a certain point yep my little cup was covering it sorry can you hear me now am I good so I was just saying how much resonated from both of your presentations and the work that you do and I definitely want to stay in touch the ratings so in know or of particular importance here the rating system for restaurants came about during the Bloomberg administration and it replaced a grid system that the health inspectors had a lot of difficulty applying and even sometimes understanding and so they were walking away from inspections with violations left unchecked and so the whole purpose of the letter grade was to simplify it for everybody including members of the public so that we would know what sort of a place we were eating in and buying food from and with you know these issues being an ever-present challenge it was thought that it was the best thing for the public and to the extent that somebody gets a B rating there is ample due process built into the system that a restaurant can very swiftly remediate and go back in and try and get the higher score and I don't know Frank if you saw a play at the public this past year called a privacy with Daniel Radcliffe but you should google it and if it comes to Broadway you should be like in the front row because it's all about it's all about some of the things that you talked about and the production involved a lot of interaction with the audience in the sense that there was a play taking place but at the same time behind the scenes hackers I don't know who the heck they were were displaying material from people's cell phones and Facebook's and anything that they could get into they were displaying it and sort of flipping people out in the middle of the play and it was really interesting the Chinese rating system that you you had a slide on is just really alarming I'm even a little uncomfortable with the fact that uber you know rates rates us you know there's a customer reputation score that I learned at that play privacy you know behind the scenes with uber it takes a lot of clicks to get through to find it but we're all rated by uber and even that freaks me out so the system that is is that was discussed about what China is doing was just really alarming and I don't know if you saw the recent court case involving the DNA database that's maintained by ancestry.com which obviously is a private you know for-profit institution but and I have a symbol full of facts that you should research it apparently there was a cold case that was solved by using DNA in ancestry.com vast DNA database and it triggered some issues that sounded to me like they were Fourth Amendment issues and so I think there is going to be some consequence of the way in which law enforcement could interact with that private database so that might be of interest and then Jocelyn I don't know if you have ever worked with the New York City Criminal Justice coordinators office but all of the work that you're doing is very much in harmony with the kind of work they're doing that relates to the criminal justice system and equality and so I'd be happy to leave on you to them because I think that they would love to see your work in your presentation hi I'm a Frank girl great name that was wonderful one thing that I was thinking about a lot throughout this was the idea that data is very complicated and so we need people that understand how to translate and it sort of parallels the way law is a very complicated system that wield a lot of power and the role that lawyers play and the responsibilities of lawyers and bar associations to self-regulate so you use educated individuals to be able to understand potential problems that arise and I'm wondering if before we sort of unleash data scientists on like informing our governmental processes and the way that our systems operate if we need to sort of figure out a way to develop a system within the data community to have this sort of like ethical self-regulation cles sort of peer review of this work because it sounds like you guys are both very sensitive to issues of privacy concerns of equity and I don't trust that a lot of these sort of app producing Bay Area people that are designing these systems are doing it speaking to your little beeping car and the the power of you know the power of a positive reinforcement to allow you to overlook potential biases compounding themselves and creating systems that will reinforce themselves you know if we can't understand those systems we're not going to be able to regulate that so it I feel like the responsibility means to fall on the shoulders of the people who potentially do I don't know if that's something like that exists even I think that's such an interesting point and I'll there's an academic debate on this that I'll get into serve what I think would might be the next step which is there's a book called protectors of privacy and it describes how it's by a kind of bamberg burger and Dierdre Mulligan a quoi collaborative between a law professor and a person at information school and it describes in broadly positive terms the role of the chief privacy officer in a lot of companies I go to a group called the International Association of privacy professionals and they try to certify people in privacy matters so that it's a sort of an interesting sort of profession either within the law or serve a pair of professions beside of law on some of these data issues but there's a lot of critics of their accounts including this guy Ari Waldman who's a sociology stew has interviewed the coders that are actually responsible for making the apps and doing the technology and programming and what Waldman's work his suggests is that while the chief privacy officer and privacy compliance teams at a lot of big tech firms say a lot of good things it doesn't translate down to the people who are actually doing the work of coding and so because of that there is some pressure now among some folks in the data science community to either go into the route of the professions where professions have codes of ethics now admittedly you know are they always followed no you know and they certainly there are many challenges to medical ethics lawyers ethics others but at least there is the institutionalized responsibility of like a state medical licensure board etc I don't think we would we would or need to go that far but we do need something in between and perhaps one step in between is Kathy O'Neill's consultancy like she's someone that has worked in data science and has tried to consult with firms this is a growing area where there are these data ethics consultants who are trying to sensitize people to some of these issues bring in to legal issues maybe even say when you have to when you have to bring in a lawyer and when you don't because that in itself is a very difficult question but I'm sorry I see there's other questions out there so I don't want to yeah I'll defer to the Federated fields and so I think we have time for two more questions so one week sure we have the one in the back yeah well they're there and then we'll we'll have Gilbert to wrap up and then some lunch well I I worked for boot mentioned that the is that she is having pub difficulty with getting debt data related to LGBT I would like to basically comment on family circumstances right now in the group that is so disadvantaged form in New York City is the caregivers of the mentally ill the caregivers the mentally ill they are not receiving the associate of stigma and other privacy concern they're not coming forward so the government does not even know what's going on and the burdens basically usually fall on the my parents or myself as a sibling so this is a bad group I would love but for you to start mentioning my questions basically regarding public source surveillance I would like to know if you can talk about it more specifically regarding to HIV if you know any public surveillance going in New York City regarding HIV and what are the privacy concerns or implications that involved yeah so actually they were there two things I wanted to discuss the first was I work for Google for a number of years and I can tell I can vouch for the fact that there is a tech disconnect and a policy disconnect there in that you know sometimes policy positions around protection of data or whatever will be presented to technical teams and technical teams responsible as well how exactly do you expect us to do this and the answers simply weren't work weren't being worked out I don't think you know either either the will wasn't there or actually the the proper the proper policy makers were not there the consultation wouldn't be made and part of this you saw I think show up in something like Google Flu Trends which claimed to be able to anticipate flu outbreaks before the CDC but it looked like the data they presented initially was sort of was more of a fluke of good luck and in retrospect it looks like they aren't able to do that but because they weren't able to show their work because of trade secrets or ever because of their private corporations because the data was not made available um there was no way to assess that at the time outside of the company all you ad was the aggregation data so there's a trousseau I wanted to ask about the trade-off between sort of the privacy of that data and exposing it to auditing mechanisms and making it you know to what extent should the data be public to be public and transparent to a particular regulatory agency that might be captured or whether it should be public to say you know some sort of academic Commons the other question that sort of relates to that was uh regarding it regarding Frank's point about the abuse of data and how fine-grained it can get and I think Jocelyn spoke to this as well um that it seems like there's a precedent for for this sort of information being made available that's the census and I wondered if any of you could speak to the regulatory mechanisms around use of census data say on a block by block level to see you know if perhaps there are too many pieces suspiciously many people look to living in an apartment building to do something like that and I was wondering if you could speak to the legal history regarding that and whether that's cause for optimism or pessimism regarding the huge flood of data that's coming at us that would allow for similar abuses I and yeah these are both I mean I very important issues raised in both of the final questions and I I want to say in terms of the HIV surveillance and mental health issues I don't know about that in particular but if you email me after I've I think I know like an article that's about some of these issues because they do raise and it sort of flows a bit into the question that you were asking David about the the data being audited because in the one hand for purposes of scientific validity you want to be able to audit the data you want to be able to get at it but a lot of this health data has information about people's mental illness about HIV status about what there are five categories that are noted in the health law as particularly sensitive health information that include both STDs substance disorders other issues like that there's actually been a long term rulemaking by the substance abuse and mental health services agency Samsa trying to negotiate between this tension between public audibility auditability and accountability and respecting people's privacy and there's a lot of investment by the Simon Foundation and other foundations in concepts like differential privacy where they would try to be able to V identify a data set to the point where you would not be able to you would with a certain degree of certitude not be able to reify anyone within the data set as being a particular entry so I think that this D identification research is something that I have a lot of hope in there are folks at Princeton like our Venera Ryan who are very skeptical of the ultimate ability of the identification research to work very well but I think that there's a there is a large academic community that's trying to work on that to allow exactly the kind of audibility that you're calling for thank you want to give some brief closing remarks I can hear some tummies rumbling I first just want to say thank you again to you and Habitat for hosting us for a second year in a row this is one of my favorite events that we at the center host and given that now we actually have a new urban agenda in writing we are really looking forward to seeing how that develops and what collaborations in the future we can have and pursue and really see how while it's a working document I think as with most documents I produce out of this building they're always a work in progress so we're looking forward to how this document develops in the future I want a big thank you to our panelists often some of these conferences can be a bit boring and I can say at least for me I was engaged for the entire two hours so some of these topics can be a bit esoteric and difficult to grasp and I really want to thank the panelists for making these relatively difficult issues at least for me really really understandable and you get a grasp I just want to give hot off the presses I have something that Clayton nothing would have appreciated so there's something very as clicks insane before the kumbaya aspect to the new your bit agenda but part of that is also that it's just a aspect of it and it's not just a document that would be put out there and hopefully people follow it there's their follow up planks to it and one of the first follow plans is the action framework foot realization of the new your bit agenda which would be available for copies if you want to grab a friend I just want to read a quick sentence out of the executive the introduction so as I said before this is the action framework so outline the basic ingredients for the implementation of the venue a who shall lead each how they might be measured and how the link to the provisions of the Nu a the action framework that the un-habitat is here with proposing is not an exclusive list of the fundamental elements required for organizations and it sends its its intent is to provide hooks to other more specialized and sectoral themes and one of the things that one of these things in particularly I want to just briefly talk about is law so we've heard of the last two hours analysis and proposals for different programs that can help the effective governance of cities and cities and developing nations in particular but as John cloth likes to always point out you can have grand plans but if you have the lawyers to implement them it's just nice words in a piece of paper so a lot of the plans especially when we think about urban planning urban governance of what that means a lot of it involves legal rights and expecting the populace and a lot of these urban spaces in a way that really does affect the legal effects legal nature is legal rights in different ways so one of the one of the our main guiding principles at the urban law center is trying to fill that void so if a mayor is looking with some urban planners and trying to get things together they can call on us or we can produce the kind of research that actually makes that implementation of these really important and nuanced procedures give them the legal footing so they're not change depending on the administration that comes in or they can be easily overthrown because of the political headwinds as many of us have experienced political headwinds can shift in a New York minute and one of the things that we want to do is to make sure that when we design programs for urban governance and particularly urban governance that's designed to distribute resources of a city in a way that marginalized communities and historically kept our community's benefit from the growth and prosperity of these communities that we have the actual legal framework to make sure that that doesn't shift depending on the political headwinds or the administration that enters so I want to give again a big thanks to you and Habitat for hosting us roles go turn for a lovely presentation in fact as well for his Justin German for yours a moderators Nestor Davidson Sheila foster debate thank you for everyone for coming up our d6 on the 4th floor history dissertation table of contents American Musical and Dramatic Academy.